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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 5:34 am 
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Overview

Since 1st January 2010, oil based paints have had to be 'VOC2010 compliant'. Simply put, this means the manufacturers have been forced to cut the solvent content of their paints, in order to bring them into line with EU directives relative to atmospheric pollution. Namely turps and white spirit. One of the side effects of this solvent reduction, was white oil based paints such as gloss, satin and eggshell prematurely discoloured from their original white; sometimes in an extremely short space of time. This effect was accelerated by the absence or reduction of natural daylight, a common feature of certain rooms. There were also other side effect of VOC2010, particularly extended drying and re-coat times which could be up to 2 days in certain cases, and an increased sheen level of undercoat, satin and eggshell was observed by many.

What can you do?

Manufacturers have paid out large sums of compensation to many customers affected by this issue, but be assured that these manufacturers will not be paying any more, as their tins and websites now display disclaimers suggesting water-based alternatives 'where yellowing may occur'. So the answer to this problem is a water-based one. Many water-based alternatives have now been introduced alongside the older oil based paints, and do not suffer from the yellowing effects or protracted drying and re-coat times. So problem solved then you may think. Well yes and no ................ read on.

Water based

Water-based and waterborne paints are the solution to yellowing, but perhaps not the solution you may hope or expect them to be. For though they solve the yellowing issue very well, they bring a few issues and quirks of their own. They are not simply water-based versions of the paints we were all used to, as they feel and behave quite differently. There are a few do's and dont's with these paints that you need to be aware of, and the learning curve with them is a bit steeper than with oil. They do take a little getting used to, and so it's not just a case of buying a different tin of paint. This is after all, an issue the trade itself is still wrestling with, with a lot of professional decorators reluctant to make the switch to water-based paints.

Application Technique

There are certain important things to remember when using a water-based paint.

  • Use a synthetic brush. Older bristle brushes are utterly useless with water-based paints. Invest in something decent; my choices would be Wooster Silvertip, Proform Contractor and Proform Picasso. The Purdy Monarch Elites are good all rounders, but will take acrylic trim paints in their stride.
  • As they don't flow quite the same as oil-based paints, you need to get surfaces better prepared, clean and smooth.
  • A bottle of methylated spirits to clean the surface prior to painting will promote adhesion, by getting rid of grease on doors etc.
  • Bridging primers. Adhesion is extremely important over old oil paint when going over to water-based, so using a high grip primer as a base for the new water-based paint will pay dividends later on.
  • Room temperature. Keep the heating off during application. As water-based paint sets quicker than oil, the lower temperature of the room keeps it workable for longer.
  • Water-based paints requires an extra coat or two. It doesn't have the same body as oil, so don't even try as it's just the nature of this paint.
  • Get a decent TRADE paint in the first instance. I won't labour this point with brands, as a search of the forum will return many relevant posts, but don't be tempted to go for cheap retail paint from B&Q/Homebase as it has shocking opacity and will require many, many to cover. Just trust me on this one.

Some useful links:

These are from within the forum itself and should help clarify some of the above, within the context of other peoples situations. Check the dates of these threads, as some are from a while ago. Water-based technology moves quickly, and best to stay current and up to date. These are simply for reference.

gloss-paint-going-yellow-t38668.html
dulux-yellowing-paint-t41082.html
satinwood-paint-water-or-oil-based-t53163.html
brush-marks-in-paint-t56111.html
hybrid-glosses-a-compartive-test-t70412.html
favourite-brushes-t75823.html


=================================================================================================================


Conclusion

There is a vast amount of information regarding the different types, brands, techniques and opinions of peoples experiences with water-based paints on this very forum, but remember one thing. Oil-based paints are having no R&D done, which would indicate that water-based paints will replace oil at some point, perhaps in the very near future, and with a new round of VOC regulations (VOC2015) imminent, water-based looks here to stay, but be assured that with every new generation of these paints, they will become more effective.

So understand and be aware that water-based paints are not a 'magic bullet' solution, as in common with oil-based paints, all have foibles, quirks and little wrinkles that need to be understood to get maximum results from them. However, neither are they a cop-out nor a compromise, as with a correct understanding of the application process and the paints themselves, very high quality results on a par with oil can be achieved. They are a genuine, and IMHO better alternative to the oil-based paints they will eventually replace, as they have none of the formers shortcomings, but have so many of their own benefits and advantages. Low odour, faster re-coating, rooms occupied the same day, harder wearing, less environmental impact..................and they don't yellow. Water-based, waterborne, acrylic - call it what you will, but these paints are the future.

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For this message the author dynamod has received thanks - 13: breatheasy, Chop, dazco, Eric Cresswell, Have Brush Will Travel, Katemart589, moderator2, nick200, OchAye, smujytradeservices, transitboy, ultimatehandyman, wrinx
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:28 pm 
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A very good post.... Can I just mention something which I think is very important, and that is the fact that alot of these so called water based equivalents(the good one's), are actually a hybrid equivalent which do contain about 10% oil, I. E Johnstones aqua /bedec aqua ect... Most 100% water based equivalents are not a good enough replacement.

These hybrid equivalent coatings do still yellow slightly, but far less and over a longer period of time... And it is a pain in the butt to clean your brushes afterwards. Then there is the cost, the hybrid coatings are more expensive so it's all swings and roundabouts in my opinion.

I think for most decorators, it's the drying times that is the deal breaker, one last thing I want to say is what I always go back and think about, I ask myself the question, if these coatings were more effective than oil(best option), then why were they not based with water in the first place?

80%of my customers still choose oil over hybrid /water based even after hearing all pros and cons.



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:14 am 
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Joeprodecor wrote:
A very good post.... Can I just mention something which I think is very important, and that is the fact that alot of these so called water based equivalents(the good one's), are actually a hybrid equivalent which do contain about 10% oil, I. E Johnstones aqua /bedec aqua ect... Most 100% water based equivalents are not a good enough replacement.

These hybrid equivalent coatings do still yellow slightly, but far less and over a longer period of time... And it is a pain in the butt to clean your brushes afterwards. Then there is the cost, the hybrid coatings are more expensive so it's all swings and roundabouts in my opinion.

I think for most decorators, it's the drying times that is the deal breaker, one last thing I want to say is what I always go back and think about, I ask myself the question, if these coatings were more effective than oil(best option), then why were they not based with water in the first place?

80%of my customers still choose oil over hybrid /water based even after hearing all pros and cons.

I thought bedec was 100 % acrlic .
Dyna mate good post :thumbright: . The only thing what bugs me is the 3 coat system :sad: :sad: and can some one tell me how this is quicker :? :? , because I have just finish a 12 bedroom mansion and I thought I was never going to finish the Fuc$ing doors & WOODWORK. Well good night and MERRY XMAS. :wink: PS Sorry to go off topic just finis painting them doors :wink:



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:08 am 
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The introduction of hybrid paints has complicated (or augmented) this matter, and the initial post was intended as a starting point for the many people who post about yellowing oil paint in this forum, and simply haven't come across VOC2010, far less oil/water hybrids. :wink: But a good point there Joe. :thumbright:

12 bedroom mansion. :thumbright: I find painting with oil is like going in slow motion, so maybe working with WB/hybrids just feels quicker. Some of these hybrids are saying 6 hours re-coat, so unlike pure WB offerings such as the old Dulux Trade Diamond Satin which could be re-coated much earlier, they do make an additional coat in an 8 hour day challenging. Though the opacity of most new hybrids is much better.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 6:26 pm 
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What really annoys me with dulux trade, the new hybrid is very good but it is a hybrid and kills brushes like no tomorrow, they have made a gloss and satinwood, but for some reason have chosen to stop diamond satinwood, but to continue eco sure gloss and have released a QD gloss and satinwood in armstead! Diamond satinwood was a brilliant paint why they have stop it is never know.
It's all fine and well having this hybrid range but what if I want to be 100% water based, now unless I pay extra for the bl satura Im stuck with the hybrid satinwood

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:42 pm 
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I thought bedec was 100 % acrlic .


I think its polyurethane/acrylic..not 100% of either, a mix of the two

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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2015 10:19 am 
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Bedec, sikkens and mythic are the only ones that won't ruin your brushes as far as I know?


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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2015 10:20 am 
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Joeprodecor wrote:
Bedec, sikkens and mythic are the only ones that won't ruin your brushes as far as I know?

And they are the most expensive :-(.... We are rodgered either way :-(


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