DIY Forum

 

Ultimate HandymanUltimate Handyman on Pinterest

 

DIY Forum/Home improvement advice forum

 

 

A-Z CONTENTS | DISCLAIMER | DIY VIDEO | HOME | SAFETY FIRST | FORUM RULES

It is currently Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:57 am
Visit Hilti


Time zone: Europe/London [ DST ]




 

 


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 5:33 pm 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:10 pm
Posts: 398
Location: Milton Keynes
Has thanked: 16 times
Been thanked: 9 times
I had my Stanley no5 hand plane pinched. I only own a record low angle block plane and a Bosch 110v planer now


Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on DiggShare on DeliciousShare on Google+
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:47 am 
Offline
Newly registered Member

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:41 pm
Posts: 62
Has thanked: 1 times
Been thanked: 15 times
Paul Sellers has some great info on hand tool woodworking and buying old quality tools on both his site and his youtube channel.

http://paulsellers.com/2014/01/question ... ew-planes/ has other relevant articles you should check out as well

https://www.youtube.com/user/PaulSellersWoodwork/videos



For this message the author Grumbledook has received gratitude : Ferny1
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:07 pm 
Offline
Old School Chippie
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:27 pm
Posts: 5720
Location: Lancashire
Has thanked: 711 times
Been thanked: 1446 times
Ferny1 wrote:
I'm an apprentice carpenter and joiner. Just about to buy my first No 4 plane. People say for about £50 I can get a Stanley which are the best for there price

OK, so is the #4 your first plane? Reason I'm asking is that a good block plane will do much of what you can do with a smoothing plane (together with a lot of trimming tasks you can't do with a smoothing plane), but, and it's a big BUT, a block plane is a one hand tool rather than a two handed one. For site use this is a very important distinction because you'll rarely if ever have the luxury of a bench to hold the work whilst planing it. For that reason I no longer carry a smoothing plane; I actually find a good block plane (one with an adjustable mouth and fine blade adjuster, like this Qiangsheng ftom Rutlands or the equivalent from Workshop Heaven) and a jack plane to be a far more useful combination. And as a decent jack (#5 or #5-1/2) plane is nudging the price of a basic electric planer (e.g. a Bosch GHO15-82c) it kind of makes me wonder why I'd bother, other than for the rare times when I have to work without power

In terms of brands of planes I'd have to say that Draper, Silverline, Faithfull and Rolson are all pretty horrible with poor castings, nasty plastic handles, second-rate blades which won't hold an edge. They all require a lot of fettkling to turn them into a half-acceptable plane. Record (Irwin) and Stanley are just about passable nowadays, but even going back 40 years they weren't that good which is why the premium brands started to emerge in the early 1980s. Don't get me wrong, all of these brands can be made to work adequately (with a lot of effort and a bit of nouse), it's just that against a premium quality plane none of them can hold a candle. By premium quality I mean brands like Clifton, Lie-Nielsen and Veritas and I do understand that these are well out of the reach of anyone on apprentices wages, but there are a few in-between planes which deliver 90% of the performance of the premium planes at a fraction of the cost. If you were to insist on a #4 smoother, as opposed to a good heavy block plane, I'd ask you to seriously consider a Qiangsheng #4 if you can find the much higher price. I know this is almost double your budget, but I have a couple of Qiangsheng planes and the quality and performance is spot-on. They are not quite as well turned-out as a premium plane, but the performance is head and shoulders above the normal Stanley or Record, and they are much easier planes to get a good result with more or less from straight out of the box. The nearest equivalent is the new Stanley Sweetheart #4 smoothing plane - I tested one of these at a trade day recently and it planes as well as the Qiangsheng (and much better than the regular #4 they also offered).

For a tool which will become a key tool in your kit for possibly the next 40 years you need to think long and hard about this purchase

_________________
"The person who never made a mistake, never made anything" - Albert Einstein

"I too will something make, And joy in the making" - Robert Bridges, 1844~1930



For this message the author Job and Knock has received gratitude : Ferny1
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:16 pm 
Offline
Old School Chippie
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:27 pm
Posts: 5720
Location: Lancashire
Has thanked: 711 times
Been thanked: 1446 times
dewaltdisney wrote:
The steel is so superior on these older manufactured planes and the blade still cuts with that lovely 'swish'.

The big change in blades came in the late 1960s when they moved away from blades made by sweating a tip of cast crucible tool steel onto a mild steel body which was then properly hardened and tempered and instead went to a one piece stamped carbon steel blade which is flame hardened (sorry, but my bro was a tool steel metalurgist). I find that many of these modern blades just won't hold an edge all that long and the stamping process can result in blades which aren't truly flat. These days to get that quality of blade you need to buy a premium blade such as a Clifton, Ray Iles, Veritas, etc and those blades cost more than the OPs' budget! (that said I believe that Workshop Heaven will sell you a Qiangsheng blade for a lot less)

dewaltdisney wrote:
Try and source an older one if you can. A Clifton plane will cost £250 and this is probably on a par with the old Stanley planes see http://www.toolnut.co.uk/products/plane ... Plane.html

Actually the Clifton is probably a better plane than anything Stanley ever produced - the extra thick blade and cap iron really do yield better results, the quality of machining is far better and the ductile body casting will withstand a drop to the (concrete) floor, something I can attest to that no Stanley or Record will!

_________________
"The person who never made a mistake, never made anything" - Albert Einstein

"I too will something make, And joy in the making" - Robert Bridges, 1844~1930


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:08 pm 
Offline
Newly registered Member

Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2016 9:30 pm
Posts: 25
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 3 times
Please excuse the necro-thread resurrection, but does anyone know if Workshop Heaven is still in business?

I’ve read that Qiangsheng quality is specified by the retailer, with Workshop Heaven specifying the best quality. Unfortunately, Workshop Heaven’s website currently seems defunct. Has anyone bought a Qiangsheng plane from Rutlands.co.uk? Or has anyone tried one of the Axminster own brand planes?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:49 pm 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:13 pm
Posts: 1967
Location: Surrey
Has thanked: 151 times
Been thanked: 79 times
Seems to be up and running, just googled it?
If you don't want to spend too much money have a look at "Tooltique" I have bought a few refurbished Stanley planes from them, about £40ish for a No 4, only had to resharpen one of them, others were good straight out of the box.

_________________
You're never too old to learn something stupid.



For this message the author Blakey has received gratitude : Fancy_Dan
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:39 pm 
Offline
Old School Chippie
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:27 pm
Posts: 5720
Location: Lancashire
Has thanked: 711 times
Been thanked: 1446 times
There is an alternative to Quangsheng from Workshop Heaven - Wood River from Wood Workers Workshop. I have a #65 (knuckle cap low angle block) and I'd say it's higher quality still than Workshop Heaven's offering. Costs more, though :cb

_________________
"The person who never made a mistake, never made anything" - Albert Einstein

"I too will something make, And joy in the making" - Robert Bridges, 1844~1930



For this message the author Job and Knock has received gratitude : Fancy_Dan
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:49 pm 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:47 pm
Posts: 557
Has thanked: 46 times
Been thanked: 229 times
If you go down the ebay second hand route Paul Sellers has a couple of videos on restoring an old plane its over an hour long so you may need to dip in and out and setting up. I have an old Stanley Handyman made in Sheffield.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYyV6IUpsYk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gE4yVgdVW7s


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:39 am 
Offline
Newly registered Member

Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2016 9:30 pm
Posts: 25
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 3 times
Thanks Blakey! Workshop Heaven's website seems to be working again; perhaps the website just had a problem when I looked.

Many thanks for the Tooltique recommendation: that looks like a brilliant way to source refurbished hand tools.

Job and Knock wrote:
There is an alternative to Quangsheng from Workshop Heaven - Wood River from Wood Workers Workshop. I have a #65 (knuckle cap low angle block) and I'd say it's higher quality still than Workshop Heaven's offering. Costs more, though :cb


Many thanks for the tip. I've now checked out Wood Workers Workshop. It looks like they have lots of good stuff!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:40 pm 
Offline
Old School Chippie
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:27 pm
Posts: 5720
Location: Lancashire
Has thanked: 711 times
Been thanked: 1446 times
Yes, indeed. I daren't let the missus catch me surfing for those sites. She thinks I get quite enough tool porn through the post (in plain envelopes, mostly, too :oops: ) without adding to it! :lol: :lol: :lol:

_________________
"The person who never made a mistake, never made anything" - Albert Einstein

"I too will something make, And joy in the making" - Robert Bridges, 1844~1930



For this message the author Job and Knock has received gratitude : Fancy_Dan
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:43 pm 
Offline
Newly registered Member

Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2016 9:30 pm
Posts: 25
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 3 times
Would you have any idea how much better Lie Nielsen/Veritas/Clifton planes are, compared to Quangsheng/Wood River?

I’ve got one Quangsheng plane: it needed very little tuning and works well. How much better is, say, Clifton? I’d have loved to buy British and have a Clifton, if it wasn’t for the price ...

In contrast, my Irwin Record couldn’t plane a block of butter. After a lot of tuning, it’s gone from utterly hopeless to barely useful. When it took over Record, I think Irwin ruined a renowned brand :angryfire:


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:16 pm 
Offline
Old School Chippie
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:27 pm
Posts: 5720
Location: Lancashire
Has thanked: 711 times
Been thanked: 1446 times
Fancy_Dan wrote:
Would you have any idea how much better Lie Nielsen/Veritas/Clifton planes are, compared to Quangsheng/Wood River?

I actually have a couple of direct comparisons:

I now have a Clifton 3110 3-in-1 shoulder plane in my tool kit. It replaced a Luban (actually made by Qangsheng) 3-in-1. In the past I have owned a couple of versions of the Record 311 as well. Of the three of the the Luban is quite useable, has a good quality blade, but the adjuster is carp (threaded portion not correctly aligned) and the lever cap doesn't fit well, It works well as a site plane, but it's not the best. The Records were better made, but they have a very thin iron and they are prone to fracturing the body lugs which hold the lever cap in place, because unlike the Luban or the Clifton they cast-iron, not malleable iron like the Luban or the Clifton. Of the three the Clifton is by far the best plane. It required no fettling out of the box other than honing the blade, the fit and finish are excellent and the blade is really good.I think that makes the Record for the collectors and the Luban for those on a budget who can put up with a few niggles for a saving (when I originally bought mine) of around £120

I have, as you know, a Wood River #65. The nearest equivalent might be a Record #018 or a Stanlet #18 (both long out of production). Having lucky enough to have once owned a brand new #018 (in the 1970s) I reckon that the Wood River is marginally better, again with the advantage of a malleable body, The Record blade (from memory) would rank as marginally inferior to the Wood River. I've also got a Veritas low angle block - which is more akin to a Stanley #60-1/2 in size. Better than the Wood River? Yes, but part of that is down to the extra design features in the Veritas. Main difference? The Veritas required no fettling to use it - just hone and go. The other two required a bit of minor work.

Is the Veritas/Clifton/Lie-Nielsen worth that much more? To a professional cabinetmaker I'd say yes - the 10% extra performance is really worthwhile. To a joiner or hobbyist? Doubtful, especially if you spend a bit of time to "fine tune". There will always be one or two features on the QS stuff which isn't perfect but TBH they are far better than some of the stuff turned out by Stanley or worse Record today.

Fancy_Dan wrote:
When it took over Record, I think Irwin ruined a renowned brand :angryfire:

I think they all started to slide in the early to mid-1970s and that cheap power tools in the 1980s really gave them a push

_________________
"The person who never made a mistake, never made anything" - Albert Einstein

"I too will something make, And joy in the making" - Robert Bridges, 1844~1930



For this message the author Job and Knock has received gratitude : Fancy_Dan
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:11 pm 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:08 pm
Posts: 1210
Has thanked: 83 times
Been thanked: 218 times
Most of my planes were brought in the early eighties , I brought a Stanley smoother and jack and still have them and they've been fine although the smoothing plane has had a new handle and I do have a couple of blades for the jack plane a general purpose blade , an older and slightly thicker blade and one ground with a convex edge. I also have a couple of record rebate planes which are ok although I'd not rate the blades that highly. A rebate and a jack plane are what I normally carry. In the workshop I have shoulder planes , bullnose planes , plough planes and a try plane as well as a shelf full of wooden moulding planes which I find are sometimes quicker and easier to use than a router.
I also have a Stanley 140 skew bladed block plane that doesn't leave the shop but I did a year or two ago buy a record block plane with the intention of carrying that with me. It wasn't expensive and when I got it I realised why , the body has some very rough finishing and in it's original state did not slide very easily at all. I recently picked up an old block plane ( record I think) from a clearance which had a problem with the screw mechanism that held the blade tight. Turning the tightening wheel and it literally ran out of thread and fell out of the cap before it secured the blade. I ended up cutting a thick aluminium spacer and it now works fine and cuts decently enough.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:25 pm 
Offline
Newly registered Member

Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2016 9:30 pm
Posts: 25
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 3 times
Grendel wrote:
I did a year or two ago buy a record block plane with the intention of carrying that with me. It wasn't expensive and when I got it I realised why , the body has some very rough finishing and in it's original state did not slide very easily at all.


Ever since Irwin acquired Record, I’ve found the new Record planes to be rubbish. I spent what felt like an eternity tuning a modern Record plane. Even then, the result was a plane that was only just usable. (Whereas my Quangsheng plane’s a quality tool. It barely needed a tickle to work beautifully.)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:56 pm 
Offline
Old School Chippie
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:27 pm
Posts: 5720
Location: Lancashire
Has thanked: 711 times
Been thanked: 1446 times
:withstupid:

I found exactly the same. I'v had a few apprentices come with the block plane they've bought, I've takn them away to tune up and found that they were absolute pants. Quality was dropping off a bit in the 1970s, but when Bahco took over in the early 1980s it slid further and with the Rubbermaid buyout (they are Itrwin's parent company) it seems to have gone off the edge of a drop

_________________
"The person who never made a mistake, never made anything" - Albert Einstein

"I too will something make, And joy in the making" - Robert Bridges, 1844~1930


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next


Similar topics
   

Time zone: Europe/London [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Visit Solent plastics


 

 

 

News News Site map Site map SitemapIndex SitemapIndex RSS Feed RSS Feed Channel list Channel list
ultimatehandyman privacy policy

Contact

 

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group

phpBB SEO