Hi guys

Im new to this forum and am looking for a little advice please.

Im also new to DIY but am an engineer so Ive been picking things up pretty eay uptill now.

Ive just had my two living rooms skimmed. Gypsum plaster was used and a little bonding to fill in a crack and repair a part of coving.

The jobs pretty smooth and I am now ready to paint. i am pplanning to paint the coving and the rooms brilliant white (the celing already has nice tiles from before). I will be using Brilliant White Dulux Matt Emulsion.

Before I do this I wanted to know if its best to use a primer so i get the wall protected and also have a very nice finish.

At the moment its been 2 weeks since new plaster has been skimmed on top of the old one. PVA was used before it was skimmed (I gather to hold the plaster to the old plaster).

So now with a newly plastered wall 2 weeks old what are my options?

So far ive been told not to put PVA on top as it wont last the life of the wall. Ive also been told not to water down paint and put it on.

I have been told to put Leyland Leytex paint on and then finish with top coat of dulux which I already have. At the same time Ive bene told this is a bad idea as the leyland is thick and can cause a bad finish when painting.

The most effective solution that has made sense to me was Primer such as Dulux primer which is quite expensive or the one from Wickes (plasterboard sealer BUT is not a primer) which is a lot cheaper, then finish with 2 coats of Dulux matt.

So Do i need to get soemthign that both seales and primes or one or the other? Thanks

Any ideas or help and advice greatly appreciated to clear up my confusion.

Many thanks

new plaster will be wanting a "Mist coat" that is any old cheap emulsio (Non Vinyl) watered down a little ...say 20 %...Do not use PVA under any circumstances..

_________________
.

If you feel you have benefited from the Free advice given on the Forum, Please consider making a donation to UHM's Nominated charity, read all about it and donate here :

http://www.donnasdreamhouse.co.uk/


__________________________________
__________________________________

Verwood Handyman
I Know it says I'm On-line, but I might have just left myself logged in, whilst I'm out....

I use dulux trade for the miscoat as it still has a good consistency when watered down. Cheaper paints will be thinner when watered down and spray/drip all over the place when rollering/brushing on.

You can use flat matt or if your top coats are going to be vinyl, then your miscoat can also be vinyl.

Follow the instructions for thinning as 20% is double the amount recommended for some paints.

Now to clear up the confusion:

PVA the walls first. PVA is a sealer and not a primer. It will not soak into the new plaster, thus forming a good key for paint to adhere to. It will infact just seal the surface and stick to it. All well and good, you may think. When you come to paint the walls again in 3 years time, the first coat will be applied and then the second coat 'can, but not always' start to strip the original paint back to the pva coat. This is because the PVA does not offer an effective key for the original paint. It will not always happen, but it can. I had a bungalow where every room suffered this problem and it is a complete pain in the James Hunt.

Miscoat. This first coat of watered down emulsion (following manufacturers instructions) will soak into the plaster, thus providing a good key for future coats of paint. Rather like primer does with timber. Same principle in my idiot terms. They are the only ones I know lol.

The reason I use a good quality paint for the miscoat is as follows.......Dulux trade for miscoat and then 2 full coats and it is job done. Cheap shat emulsion for the miss coat and then it will need 3 full coats of quality paint. Save £15 on paint but pay £40 extra labour!!!!

Insurance work you can get away with Dulux trade brilliant white, 1 miscoat, 1 full coat if both applied with a good quality medium piled roller. It looks just the same as cheap miscoat and 3 cheap full coats.

As has been said above. No PVA. The paint you want is "non-vinyl" and therefore it will be matt. It has to be diluted (to be on the safe side) but not over diluted. The idea is that the substrate will absorb as much paint as it wants.

I am familiar with Crown Trade paints (I am an amateur painter but I have mostly used their paints). See: http://www.crowntrade.co.uk/Products/Pages/default.aspx and under essential products see Covermatt Emulsion. Pick up the data sheet and look for maximum dilution. Other paints won't take the same maximum dilution. (e.g. macphersons which is also crown is 20% maximum I think where crown is 40%). What you get at B&Q is a guess as there are no data sheets.

If you go the painting and decorating forum the professionals talk about doing 2-3 mist coats in quick succession (i.e. keep going round the room).

The aim should be to provide a correct coat (mist coat) to last you for ever and then you can use any paint you like on top of it.

As rollers have been mentioned, a microfibre 9" Hamilton roller sleeve (medium pile) is/was just over £3 from screwfix. Absolutely wonderful (I am a recent convert).

Also B&Q and others make a bigger paint tray for just under £5 which takes 2.5lt of paint. Get one. For the amount of painting you have to do, the shallow black ones are a waste of time. See [url]http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.jsp?action=detail&fh_secondid=9254687&fh_location=//catalog01/en_GB/categories%3C{9372015}/categories%3C{9372043}/categories%3C{9372176}/categories%3C{9392046}/specificationsProductType=paint_trays[/url]

Thanks for that information. I wrote a message out but it got lost intranslation somewhere.

Im definitely not using PVA now. Its clear this is not a good idea.

IF theres any information on sealing and priming id be gratful but it looks as though the mistcoat option is the best one. will this also help prevent cracks etc. Ive been told the sealing splution offers resistance to cracks then priming allowing less paint to be used.

I am using Dulux Matt paint the standard one. Got 3 x 10L from B&Q last week when it was on a 3 for 2 offer. Thats more than enough to do the coving and the walls for both rooms.

Please let me know if the Leyland Leytex paint is good enough. Im a alittle scared to use this as I was told its heavy paint. Does that mean it coudl go on lumpy?




Thanks for that info too. I will check out the price on crowns trade paints.

How does the trade paint defer from the consumer ones? Are they generally thicker? If so when watered down wouldnt theybe same consistancy as Normal Dulux? Im not sure why the trade pains are used to do the miscoats bus im sure theres a very good reason, I would just like to understand what im doing.

I will get those rollers from screwfix first thing tomorrow as ive been lent some reollers by someoen else and they are used and I think Ill go for a 2.5l tray as well, it just makes more sense to me. Thanks

I got most of the gist but couldn't be bothered to keep scrolling left and right lol.

You will find a lot of penny pinchers and painters who like to work a few hours a day and pi55 it up the rest, will love cheap paint. The Bosnians too.

Trade is better than standard although dearer. You get what you pay for though and coverage along with length of time between redecs are just two of the benefits of trade paint. In my opinion, that is. Some will pat me on the3 back and others will have different views.

Crown paint is ok also.

Leyland, I just find to be shat and never use it after the first time.

Cracking can happen whenever you get settlement after new works. Paint will not stop it nor will a sealer.

Sounds like Leyland s off the cards.

My wife and I will undertake the painting ourselves. Weve just doen the coving and its turned out pretty good.

Crown sounds good so ill look that up and check out the datasheets. Illa os wait for any other advice that turns up before I have to do the walls which is in the next few days.

Thanks guys. Keep the info coming.

Trade paints are more expensive (Crown or Dulux). Yes they are thicker, have more opacity etc etc.

Since you got it, and if you don't want to get non-vinyl emulsion, dilute some paint with 20% water.

The purpose of the mist coat is not to save you paint/money or to stop cracks. If the plaster produces hair line cracks the paint can't do anything about it. The idea is the paint will get absorbed in the plaster and produce a surface suitable for a full paint to go on.

If you put the paint on thick the problems will start next time you decorate (or before). The chances are that sooner or later the paint will flake off the wall. If you are lucky, all the paint will come off like wall paper. If you are unlucky it will only come off here and there, in bits and pieces, and will keep doing so.

I don't know about Leyland paints (they are the cheapest of the 3/4 trade paints). The one you mention is a non-vinyl paint but has not comments on dilution, see the data sheet: http://www.leyland-paints.co.uk/leylandtrade_productdetails.asp?prodid=14 It will probably be cheaper than equivalent new plaster trade paints from dulux or crown.

Does that mean the non trade Emulision matt I have from Duluxe is Vinyl?

So what youre saying is I can take this very paint and dilute it 20% and slap a coat of htis onto the walls, let it dry then put two further coats on.

This mist coat. Is it applied lighter than a normal coat too?

How do I mix the water with the paint. I dont have one of those industrial whisks. Is hand mixing sufficient?

Thank you

Most likely it is Vinyl. Ideally you should not use vinyl but ... cost seems to be an issue.



Yes, dilute 20% and use it. Or buy 5 or 10 litres of non-vinyl paint and use that for the mist coat.

The mist coat is applied like normal paint. You have to paint the edges with teh brush, roll the paint, and make sure you do not leave tram lines (lines from the edges of the roller) on the walls. Work the roller up and down (and horizontally if you like) but finish on up/down strokes ... until the paint is even.



Hand mixing with a flat stick is enough. BUT you must mix thoroughly the paint in the container, then take some paint out into a bucket ... add 20% water in the bucket and mix again.

You should really have been asking the Qs in the painting and decorating forum ... where the people would give you more refined information.

Thanks mate. Ive posted a question up on this in the mornign and seem to be gettign some good answers. An idea given to me earlier was to use Gliddens contract matt that I can obtain from a Dulux centre. Do the mist coat with that then take out imperfections after its dried then go obver with the Dulux matt I have using 2 or 3 top coats depending on the desired results.

Im off to buy a hamilton roller sleve a 2.5 litre bucket and check out the gliddens contract matt. Its quite cheap at 17 quid for 10 L so very cost effective.