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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:11 am 
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Around 20 years ago I was in the local and a bloke asked "are you still decorating?" I jokingly replied that I'd always be decorating. He then asked if I knew someone, and quickly chipped in "you'll not know him, he's old school". Implying that I was inferior, although he'd never seen my work.

I always think of some old boy painting ceilings with a bread winner, graining and marbling etc when I hear that term, and also possibly set in their ways with regard to trying new things.

Last week I was on a job and we were discussing the previous decorator and how unreliable he was, plus doing a poor job. She said that I was "old school" and I chuckled to myself thinking of the bloke in the pub.

I didn't like to be compared unfavourably with someone that's "old school" all those years ago, but I never thought of myself being "old school" now, but compared to some I suppose I am, whatever it is.

One things for sure, I learned my trade from one man, can work with other decorators without being pulled up over my methods or quality, and I've brought two trainees through, and we all work exactly the same - it's uncanny!

Maybe some of us guys are "new old school" ? [WHITE SMILING FACE]

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 Post subject: Re: What or who is
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:25 am 
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'Old School' seems to be a euphemism for anyone that works to high(er) standards than people tend to expect.

These days even simple politeness and good manners are seen as 'old school' because today's youth (in the main but not exclusively) have little respect for their elders and no concept of appropriate behaviour (lack of shame).

It's a form of discrete approval.

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 Post subject: Re: What or who is
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:03 pm 
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Old school can mean a few different things I suppose. I coach an u14 football team and a few of the parents comment on me being old school with some of my methods :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: What or who is
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:35 pm 
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I suppose if you are old school you do not have a cordless drill driver and still use a manual screwdriver. My understanding is old school means that you do not embrace newer time saving methods. In decorating for example, I guess there would be a resistance to using acrylic paints and sticking to oil knowing it will yellow.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:47 pm 
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dewaltdisney wrote:
I suppose if you are old school you do not have a cordless drill driver and still use a manual screwdriver. My understanding is old school means that you do not embrace newer time saving methods. In decorating for example, I guess there would be a resistance to using acrylic paints and sticking to oil knowing it will yellow.

DWD
I've a mate like that. He's a really good joiner, but was very slow to embrace power tools. He did eventually, and was glad he did.

Ps. Not all oil based paint yellows. The Crown next generation gloss behaves pretty much like the old oils.



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:49 pm 
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People's perception that someone is older so must be better is also a bit misguided as well. Some tradesmen might be older but may also have been crap all their lives.

I was once working on an insurance job with my boss and a slightly older lad. We were both in our late 20s but he was prematurely bald and aged by booze and fags. He was a brush hand, but took pleasure in how much quicker he was than us, and often made sarcastic remarks. He basically rushed everything and was more about quantity than quality.

My problem was the customer loved him. She obviously assumed he was the senior and better decorator, when in fact I was doing all the paper hanging, and the shine free gloss that she kept pointing out to me was all his turpsy handywork.



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 Post subject: Re: What or who is
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:37 am 
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I served my apprenticeship with a very old school firm, especially the boss. We were a bit outdated even then, and so some of the following comments/observations should be read in that context. It's not a rant, despite how it may seem at times. :lol:

Old school is an odd phrase to my mind which carries both positive and negative implications. On the one hand, it seems to suggest maturity, patience and a certain skill level, probably quite high. However, it also seems (to me at least) slightly derogatory, in the sense of being entrenched in outdated methods and products, at least in the decorating trade.

The 'process' of decorating is the essence of old school IMO, reflecting a time when the overall skill level of the trade was higher. Sure there were guys who were pretty hopeless then as there are now, but the attitude was different. There seemed a more comprehensive pride in learning and doing the job, but more importantly, continually improving. That was a generational thing the older guys were happy to pass down. They weren't just teaching basic skills and knowledge, but an entire attitude and ethos as well. You essentially were being moulded into a tradesman, in every sense.

It's not a universal trait, but I see so much decline in the perception and value of the skill set, the attitude to the work, the "God, not another day at this" mentality; and all from within the trade itself, that some days I could weep. Some of the things 'decorators' are getting up these days, the lack of product knowledge, correct technique, attitude, and openness to change and innovation all suggest a steady decline towards a semi-skilled DIY weekend hobbyist future.

I hope all this doesn't seem bleak, as there are some very good, highly skilled people out there. The above is very broad strokes and generalised.

New Old School is a pretty good description actually and would look good on a tee-shirt. :thumbright:

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 Post subject: Re: What or who is
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:42 am 
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dynamod wrote:
I served my apprenticeship with a very old school firm, especially the boss. We were a bit outdated even then, and so some of the following comments/observations should be read in that context. It's not a rant, despite how it may seem at times. :lol:

Old school is an odd phrase to my mind which carries both positive and negative implications. On the one hand, it seems to suggest maturity, patience and a certain skill level, probably quite high. However, it also seems (to me at least) slightly derogatory, in the sense of being entrenched in outdated methods and products, at least in the decorating trade.

The 'process' of decorating is the essence of old school IMO, reflecting a time when the overall skill level of the trade was higher. Sure there were guys who were pretty hopeless then as there are now, but the attitude was different. There seemed a more comprehensive pride in learning and doing the job, but more importantly, continually improving. That was a generational thing the older guys were happy to pass down. They weren't just teaching basic skills and knowledge, but an entire attitude and ethos as well. You essentially were being moulded into a tradesman, in every sense.

It's not a universal trait, but I see so much decline in the perception and value of the skill set, the attitude to the work, the "God, not another day at this" mentality; and all from within the trade itself, that some days I could weep. Some of the things 'decorators' are getting up these days, the lack of product knowledge, correct technique, attitude, and openness to change and innovation all suggest a steady decline towards a semi-skilled DIY weekend hobbyist future.

I hope all this doesn't seem bleak, as there are some very good, highly skilled people out there. The above is very broad strokes and generalised.

New Old School is a pretty good description actually and would look good on a tee-shirt. :thumbright:

Very good observation and it can relate to schoolwork,any kind of trade or job now and as I touched upon earlier,sport where a lot of the kids I coach can’t header a ball,won’t go in for a meaty challenge and keep telling me I’m an old fart cause I’m not in touch with fifa on Xbox or the premiership football the all watch.

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 Post subject: Re: What or who is
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:44 am 
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Btw did any of you guys on here have a journeyman that wore a bonnet and shirt and tie to work under their works dungarees? There were still a few in 1990ish that were due to retire soon when I was an apprentice! Oh and the obligatory huge turnups on the dungarees/trousers :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: What or who is
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:56 am 
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My first boss wore a bunnet and a collar and tie to work :shock: He always carried a wooden folding foot rule with him as well. :scratch:

As an aside - I don't know how the other guys feel, but I don't miss those days in the least. I've had more bleeding fingers from running filler into door mouldings that I want to remember, and old school oil eggshell was horrifically strong smelling stuff. I bowked (literally) more than once using it.

:puke: :puke:

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 Post subject: Re: What or who is
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:54 pm 
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I think i'm a bit of both to be honest. Taught the old school way but use modern methods as well.There is a lot of new products out there that which does make our job easier to do although i do question the ones that only use these products & then get stuck when they can't use them.which is where the old school methods work.
I was taught to always turn up on time & be polite to the customers.I still do this now & i've been self -employed for over 15 years now.On the quality side of things i can do both high class or a simple freshen up.It all depends on money.You maybe lucky & only work for clients who are well off & won't quibble about a price whereas others will. I don't know everything & don't pretend i do.I'm still learning.
Dynamod..I still use my fingers to fill woodwork sometimes.


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 Post subject: Re: What or who is
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:00 am 
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old school can actually mean anything :dunno:
tend to do things in a bygone way
using older standards usually more exact but not always
set in your ways not always the best solution :lol:
tend not to use modern tecnology to the fullest extent
abbreviations. from the 18th century means far more than text speak :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:44 am 
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I'd go far as to describe 'old school' as the likes of Scruff and J&K here on the forum (others too - but you get my drift).

Obviously this is a compliment - meant as such too. :salute:

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:56 pm 
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steviejoiner74 wrote:
Btw did any of you guys on here have a journeyman that wore a bonnet and shirt and tie to work under their works dungarees? There were still a few in 1990ish that were due to retire soon when I was an apprentice! Oh and the obligatory huge turnups on the dungarees/trousers :lol:


There were a few when I started , a couple of bricklayers and a chippy . The one bricklayer was the last I ever saw wearing a tie on site but must have retired around 2006 . Not sure if he was "proper" old school in the sense being used here as he did more patching and plastering than actual bricklaying but he was definitely old school with regards to bad language . We called him "lousy Ted" because , well his name was Ted , and he would never use a word worse than lousy , no four letter outbursts or anything.
As to what old school means to me it means having served an apprenticeship and having the knowledge of how things were done and to be able or willing to do those things rather than just dismissing them.
I've worked with decorators who knew all about tinting paints , mixing to create just the right finish and knowing the techniques to apply to match oldexsisting finishes. Likewise the carpenters I worked with ( I'm one too) knew about jointing , thinking about grain being right , economical cutting and how to treat the wood to get the best out of it . We all used power tools but having to rip down timber by hand or shape it with an axe wasn't something we'd baulk at .



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 Post subject: Re: What or who is
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:03 am 
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It's funny you should mention hand tinting shades, as that was something I initially resisted and missed doing when the shops really ramped up their colour mixing services. It took a conscious shift to get on board with the new way of doing things.

The profanity is something I entirely agree with. :thumbright: I hear so many guys in the dec center and on jobs effing and jeffing in their normal speech, that I wonder if they can't express themselves any other way. The constant use of this sort of language is something I truly detest hearing from trades and is utterly unnecessary, given the complexity of the spoken word. :sad:

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