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 Post subject: Re: What do I want?
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 9:56 pm 
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Thewindowguy wrote:
Anything on here any help not sure if they sell spare wire http://www.scarva.com/Mobile/MobileSearchResults.aspx/?ProductGroupID=18


Cheers twg, I do already buy stuff from Scarva, (it's one of the few places this side of the pond that you can get a range of American frits).

They will have the tools I want (not spare blade material though) but I just want to make some myself.

I get a kick out of using tools I've made same as using the pots I make.

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 Post subject: Re: What do I want?
PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2016 3:49 am 
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I know what you mean nothing like the satisfaction of making something with tools you have made!
One more thing that has just come to me how about a electrical fish tape http://www.screwfix.com/p/spring-steel-fish-tape/67849
I'm sure there is some cheaper ones out there to have a look at


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 Post subject: Re: What do I want?
PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2016 12:48 pm 
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I meant ordinary clips mate, like this: they from 22/33/51mm up to 76 mm then unbend to give more, should be enough for your tool making and you could bind with a softer wire like florists wire. they are strong and not bendy but will take some re-shaping for your purposes before they snap. And cheap too!

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B004VUVYNM/ ... VR0XJT0NQQ



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 Post subject: Re: What do I want?
PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2016 9:08 pm 
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jape wrote:
I meant ordinary clips mate, like this: they from 22/33/51mm up to 76 mm then unbend to give more, should be enough for your tool making and you could bind with a softer wire like florists wire. they are strong and not bendy but will take some re-shaping for your purposes before they snap. And cheap too!


OK, thanks. I can't really use a round wire though, it needs to be flat so I can get some sort of an edge on it. If it starts off round I'd have to grind/file it down to a half circle first. My metalwork skills may not be up to that. :oops:

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 Post subject: Re: What do I want?
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 12:00 am 
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ayjay wrote:
jape wrote:
I meant ordinary clips mate, like this: they from 22/33/51mm up to 76 mm then unbend to give more, should be enough for your tool making and you could bind with a softer wire like florists wire. they are strong and not bendy but will take some re-shaping for your purposes before they snap. And cheap too!


OK, thanks. I can't really use a round wire though, it needs to be flat so I can get some sort of an edge on it. If it starts off round I'd have to grind/file it down to a half circle first. My metalwork skills may not be up to that. :oops:


Try heating it to red without quenching then hitting it a few times. That'll flatten it. Then heat again past straw and bright red and as the red darkens quench quickly in water, quickly means in and out while being held in for about half a second, no more as it is thin metal. That should harden it to a springiness on the outside but retain some bendiness inside. It's only practice teaches this by results but at a hundred for a couple of quid you can't really lose. Don't read up quenching and annealing and tempering too much because it seems contrary and confusing as terms can be misused. Just have a go and see. You can vary the colour and the quench times to get same results but I used to do them like I said on that particular steel to get them flat and tough so they didn't bend out of shape when used (so that it is springy) but didn't break too easily (not too brittle). This varies according to original carbon content of steel wire but with time you will be able to leave the ends soft to bend into place and harden and shape just the working area.


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 Post subject: Re: What do I want?
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 10:51 am 
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stainless piano wire as you working with wet clay

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Piano-Wire-String-Roslou-3-metres-9ft-10-Toys-Games-Crafts-Industrial-/262432004777

1 thou = 0.02mm
10 thou =0.25mm
100 thou = 2.54mm


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 Post subject: Re: What do I want?
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 11:43 am 
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jape wrote:

Try heating it to red without quenching then hitting it a few times. That'll flatten it. Then heat again past straw and bright red and as the red darkens quench quickly in water, quickly means in and out while being held in for about half a second, no more as it is thin metal. That should harden it to a springiness on the outside but retain some bendiness inside. It's only practice teaches this by results but at a hundred for a couple of quid you can't really lose. Don't read up quenching and annealing and tempering too much because it seems contrary and confusing as terms can be misused. Just have a go and see. You can vary the colour and the quench times to get same results but I used to do them like I said on that particular steel to get them flat and tough so they didn't bend out of shape when used (so that it is springy) but didn't break too easily (not too brittle). This varies according to original carbon content of steel wire but with time you will be able to leave the ends soft to bend into place and harden and shape just the working area.


I shall print that off and have a go one day, it's something I've heard about but never really known or understood the procedure. :thumbright:

I'll probably not try it just yet for this project as I want to know that I'm working with the right stuff initially - if I could make a wooden one I'd be OK. :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: What do I want?
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 11:51 am 
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flash22 wrote:
stainless piano wire as you working with wet clay

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Piano-Wire-String-Roslou-3-metres-9ft-10-Toys-Games-Crafts-Industrial-/262432004777

1 thou = 0.02mm
10 thou =0.25mm
100 thou = 2.54mm


Can piano wire be flattened as Jape suggests for the softer stuff?

The problem with piano wire is that it's round, I need to get something resembling a cutting edge on it, not sharp like a knife, more like a cabinet scraper.

Loop tools are used for two main purposes, if it's just for modelling with wet clay a fine round wire is OK, but for trimming when the clay is much drier/harder you need an edge.

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 Post subject: Re: What do I want?
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 1:42 pm 
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I take it needs to be smooth, stainless dental wire is oval or D shaped


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 Post subject: Re: What do I want?
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 2:01 pm 
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Just had a look the tools seem cheap enough, is really worth messing about ?

eg.

http://www.scarva.com/en/Coiled-Ribbon-and-Wire-Tools/c-187.aspx


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 Post subject: Re: What do I want?
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 4:05 pm 
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ayjay wrote:
flash22 wrote:
stainless piano wire as you working with wet clay

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Piano-Wire-String-Roslou-3-metres-9ft-10-Toys-Games-Crafts-Industrial-/262432004777

1 thou = 0.02mm
10 thou =0.25mm
100 thou = 2.54mm


Can piano wire be flattened as Jape suggests for the softer stuff?

The problem with piano wire is that it's round, I need to get something resembling a cutting edge on it, not sharp like a knife, more like a cabinet scraper.

Loop tools are used for two main purposes, if it's just for modelling with wet clay a fine round wire is OK, but for trimming when the clay is much drier/harder you need an edge.


I think you'll find that while paper clips are mild steel, which can be hardened and tempered a little bit, piano wire is carbon steel, and will be less forgiving as it will harden "glass hard" if just heated up cherry red and quenched. If I want to anneal a little piece of steel I usually heat it up on some sand in a flat tin and leave it to cool. Same with tempering. Either heat it in sand or on a piece of steel sheet until you get the right colour for quenching. I've always hardened first, and then cleaned and tempered back to the colour I wanted. Blue for springs.
I'm no expert though, it's just what seems to work for me. As jape says you'll learn more having a play around with it.

If you want to "stop" the heat on a bit of wire or other thin small stuff, stick it through a potato.



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 Post subject: Re: What do I want?
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 7:20 pm 
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flash22 wrote:
Just had a look the tools seem cheap enough, is really worth messing about ?



Yes, I know they're cheap, I bought one from Scarva not long ago, it's good, but it's not as fine as what I want to make, and I enjoy making and using my own tools, and what's the point of life (and especially retirement) if you can't spend some time messing about. :error:

My first attempt will be with the wiper blades from my as yet unvandalised van, just the passenger side, in case I ever have to move it again in the rain. :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: What do I want?
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 5:32 pm 
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Hi,

I've finally had a few minutes in the garage looking through what I have to hand in the hope of finding something suitable. How about a 44" long x 0.015" x 0.060" heating element (resistance strip) as used in a shrink wrapping machine? The picture below shows it coiled; it's flat section and could perhaps be tensioned between an home made fork?

A further idea is to use a short length of narrow bandsaw blade with the teeth ground off?

If the heating element is of use you can have it with my compliments but I'll need your address. :salute:

Kind regards, Col.

Attachment:
Heating element..JPG
Heating element..JPG [ 146.38 KiB | Viewed 267 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: What do I want?
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 7:42 pm 
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I have a dead 10-12mm bandsaw blade if you can make use of it - thanks col I forgot about that hanging up in the workshop till just now



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 Post subject: Re: What do I want?
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 8:47 pm 
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Hi,

Nice one flash22; every bit helps? :thumbleft:

Piercing saw blades might even be better because they too are very strong and have extremely fine teeth they are also cheap; the last piercing saw blades I bought was a few years ago and I think 60 only cost about a fiver? I've been a bit slow in giving this some thought because I'm very busy with painting the bungalow exterior and being a guy I'm unable to multi-task? :cb

Kind regards, Col.

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