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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:14 pm 
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I filed the edge of my plane iron to make it square but when I regrind the blade to 25 degrees with sandpaper I don't get a burr on the back and once sharpened the blade is still dull. When I tried to regrind the bevel did I have to set the projection to 50mm and grind until I get to 25 degrees.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:41 pm 
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Why are you using "sandpaper" and what sort of sandpaper (and grade) are you using?

If it's Aluminium Oxide paper you might have a chance but you'd be much better off with either a traditional Carborundum stone or even better a Diamond stone.

If you don't bring up a burr, you won't produce a sharp edge: it will take long enough to bring up a burr after filing the edge off even if you use a decent stone, you'll be there till Domesday with sandpaper.

I don't understand the last sentence at all, (apart from grinding to 25°).

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 12:22 am 
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in general your blade needs a dead level 100% square cutting edge with ground under edges for a wide plane
sand paper tends to leave a very uneven surface similar to a ploughed field :lol:
in general you need an ultra fine stone or sharpenning stone with perhaps a leather strop to debur
in general a file is a very very course tool and not able to sharpen a decent blade in similar way to painting a portrait with a yard broom :cb

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:30 am 
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ayjay wrote:
I don't understand the last sentence at all, (apart from grinding to 25°).
I used an eclipse type honing guide that uses a 50mm projection for a 25° bevel. I set the projection to 50mm and used either 60 or 80 grit aluminium oxide sandpaper to regrind the bevel but I didn't get a burr so I wasn't sure if this was the correct way to get a new 25° bevel. I do have a oil stone and diamond stones but I don't find the diamond stones work very good but this maybe due to me using them wrong.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:45 am 
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curtains wrote:
I used an eclipse type honing guide that uses a 50mm projection for a 25° bevel.

I do have a oil stone and diamond stones but I don't find the diamond stones work very good but this maybe due to me using them wrong.


OK: I've never used a honing guide, I've always sharpened freehand. Re-grinding by hand is a laborious process and in the long term it's metal hungry - to be avoided if at all possible, it's why chippies absolutely hate hitting nails with planes or chisels. I've sharpened away about six 1" chisels to the point of uselessness throughout my career, (they're not tempered all the way to the hilt) if I was re-grinding regularly it could be double or even treble that - it all costs, both time and money.

I use an Aluminium oxide stone for the rough stuff if I have to re-grind, Al-ox paper should do as well I suppose, but if you want to put a decent edge on a blade you'll need to go down to a finer stone/grit eventually.

It could be that it's a much slower process than you were expecting,(that's another reason we try and avoid having to do it) but a diamond stone will do the job, even the cheap ones I've tried will work.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:51 am 
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leather strops make a massive differncce like

i use a few different set ups. i have a water cooled bench grinder set up i got from rutlands that spins dead slowly. like 95 rpm or something. i also have a veritas honing guide which is great. i have a couple of diamond stones (or whatever ) in varying grits. i also have a leather strop too. though there is also a leather strop wheel on the bench grinder.

last time i did my chisels on the bench grinder i could shave with them. my arm is still part hairless haha

need to crack on with my planes like. particularly my block plane coz its as blunt as can be, though not as blunt as the op's by the sounds of it.

my inch chisel in particular i managed to get it like a mirror on the back of it.

which reminds me you need to also make sure the back of the iron is flat too.

ill see if i can grab a pic of my stuff. i keep it in a little mini systainer so its all together


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 12:01 pm 
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A whetstone is about the only way to go, I had 2 2" plane blades sharped on a horizontal machine for £8.50


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 12:07 pm 
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Depends how old the blade is as well. Some of the old blades have a high carbon steel piece welded to the front edge of the blade which is "mild steel". Once that's gone it's gone.
As ayjay says you avoid grinding the bevel as much as possible, doesn't matter too much about that being "polished" as the sharpening angle usually of around 30' will be polished.
The idea is that you have a main (grinding) bevel at around 25', and then sharpen on a stone at around 30' to form a short secondary or sharpening bevel. That needs to be polished. So does the back of the blade which also needs to be dead flat. The idea of having the short sharpening bevel is that it is less work to get an edge with a hand stone.
Edge can then honed on a piece of leather either dressed with crocus powder, or what I've always used a tiny smear of fine valve grinding paste. That will give a final polish to the edge and remove any wire edge.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 12:40 pm 
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Dave54 wrote:
Depends how old the blade is as well.
I think it's the original stanley blade and I think it's over 20 years old.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 12:46 pm 
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Probably not then. I think they stopped making the "two piece" blades back in the early 60s.
There's a thread here somewhere that discusses it. "Job & Knock" would know for sure.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:46 pm 
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I too have never used a honing guide.
My sharpening stone is a combination carborundum, but I can never really remember using the 'rough' side.
I tend to sharpen quite frequently, never waiting till the tool is blunt!
To hone, I have always used a block of hardwood (close grained) on which I rub on honing wax from a Veritas block.
I used the waxed block as I would a stone, and honestly it produces a really wicked edge!
Yes you could shave with any of my chisels or plane irons.
Link to Veritas block below:-
http://www.axminster.co.uk/veritas-honi ... y4QAvD_BwE

davyp1


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 8:09 pm 
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davyp1 wrote:

I have the same honing compound I also have the green and white honing compound by silverline.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 8:20 pm 
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Dave54 wrote:
The idea is that you have a main (grinding) bevel at around 25', and then sharpen on a stone at around 30' to form a short secondary or sharpening bevel. That needs to be polished. So does the back of the blade which also needs to be dead flat. The idea of having the short sharpening bevel is that it is less work to get an edge with a hand stone. .


Yes I was taught the two bevel sharpening technique at college but it was common practice amongst the guys I worked with to hone at the same angle as the grinding angle which is what I've done ever since. I have a fine carborundum stone that is used mostly although it could really do with reflattening but also have a couple of natural stones that will put a better edge on but seem to wear quicker. I picked up one other stone in a clearance which I'm sure is slate. That too puts a good edge on a tool.
As for grinding I've used blocks of sandstones and even a concrete slab in an emergency and do own a wetstone grinder but find my belt sander gets used more often that not. Relatively slow in relation to a beach grinder so overheating is easier to avoid and it's also very easy to get a concave bevel on the tool. I did find grinding a concave bevel makes honing easier or at least easier to see if one is going wrong as the polishing should appear as two thin lines at the edge and top of the bevel.
One other thing , I don't tend to use oil on oilstones either . Turpentine preferably although it's normally white spirits.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 8:36 pm 
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Grendel wrote:
Dave54 wrote:
The idea is that you have a main (grinding) bevel at around 25', and then sharpen on a stone at around 30' to form a short secondary or sharpening bevel. That needs to be polished. So does the back of the blade which also needs to be dead flat. The idea of having the short sharpening bevel is that it is less work to get an edge with a hand stone. .


Yes I was taught the two bevel sharpening technique at college but it was common practice amongst the guys I worked with to hone at the same angle as the grinding angle which is what I've done ever since. I have a fine carborundum stone that is used mostly although it could really do with reflattening but also have a couple of natural stones that will put a better edge on but seem to wear quicker. I picked up one other stone in a clearance which I'm sure is slate. That too puts a good edge on a tool.
As for grinding I've used blocks of sandstones and even a concrete slab in an emergency and do own a wetstone grinder but find my belt sander gets used more often that not. Relatively slow in relation to a beach grinder so overheating is easier to avoid and it's also very easy to get a concave bevel on the tool. I did find grinding a concave bevel makes honing easier or at least easier to see if one is going wrong as the polishing should appear as two thin lines at the edge and top of the bevel.
One other thing , I don't tend to use oil on oilstones either . Turpentine preferably although it's normally white spirits.


I tried the single bevel method, but it takes too long to get an edge if you're resharpening much IMO.
Still, whatever you do, as long as the bevel itself isn't dragging on the work, I don't reckon it makes much difference, what you do. The flat side is what is presented to the work after all. Matter of choice really.
I've got a couple of old slate stones. They were sold as "razor hones" I think. One still had a bit of the original packing.
I haven't used them for years, but they are OK for a final polish.
I always used a Norton double sides stone when I was working on the furniture, but diamond stones were an eye opener for me.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:07 pm 
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Grendel wrote:
One other thing , I don't tend to use oil on oilstones either . Turpentine preferably although it's normally white spirits.


I always used to use ordinary 3 in1 oil on my Carborundum stone until the nice men from the Gas Board left a can of cutting oil on the job (new can for every job - :roll: - I checked before they left), I've used that ever since, and on my diamond stone its either water, spit or cold tea. :shock:

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