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 Post subject: Waterbased users
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:05 pm 
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Are we still in a minority?

Was talking to a decorator in the merchants and when I told him I'm pretty much finished with oils, and he was quite surprised.

He was asking about the brands I use, and about the prep and how many coats etc. Still using oils, as are quite a few I've spoken to over recent years.

Also, a few weeks ago johnstones trade had a question and answer session on social media which covered waterbased coatings and their application. It's almost as if these are new products, but I first used johnstones aqua almost 10 years ago!

7 years since VOC 2010 and lots of people still haven't made the leap of faith it would seem.

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 Post subject: Re: Waterbased users
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:20 pm 
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Use both, if I'm doing new build work I still use Crown trade oil based satinwood, it stays white and is lovely to use. I might get crucified for saying this, but I love Dulux quick drying satinwood, and not the trade one, the retail one. It's far better than the Dulux trade satin, I know a few lads who say the same.


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 Post subject: Re: Waterbased users
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:24 pm 
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Totaly waterbased since april 16. Used oil once since then to match a wardrobe door and it made me ill !!! :cussing:


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 Post subject: Re: Waterbased users
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:49 pm 
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Oil - :puke: :puke: :puke:

Water - :huray: :huray: :huray:

Never use oil inside, and tbh hate the stuff these days. There are so many quality acrylics/hybrids we're spoiled for choice. Been back to Sikkens Rubbol Satura BL and still think its the best waterborne satin out there.

I'm just baffled that oil still gets used, as there are so many negatives about it. The water based coatings are a pleasure to apply, and really reward correct prep. They don't stink, they don't yellow, they don't take 2 days between coats, they don't make you feel like you're painting in slow motion.

No brainer IMHO. :thumbright:

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 Post subject: Re: Waterbased users
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 5:29 am 
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My only problem with water-based is that whenever I have tried them they need an extra coat. Is that still true? Are there any out there that don't?


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 Post subject: Re: Waterbased users
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:16 am 
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Most need a third coat, but the faster application over heavier oil paint tends to offset this I find.

The best covering acrylics/hybrids I've used so far are:

Armstead QD Satin. 2 coats in 95% of situations.
Dulux QD Undercoat and QD Gloss. Spectacular gear. Really. Normally careful application of the gloss will cover in one top coat over undercoat, unless a really high shine is required.
Bedec Aqua Gloss & Satin. Very good opacity, and very fast application. They dry really quickly, so 3 coats in 1 day is easily achievable under good drying conditions.

The more exotic brands are largely irrelevant in this context, as they are not so readily available and are often quite pricey. On higher end work, I would be doing extra coats on trim anyway. :thumbright:

EDIT Like a lot of the, shall we say, more 'seasoned' decs on here, I was a raging oilhead that really resisted the acrylic revolution, on account of the utter crap that passed for acrylic paint at the outset. Those days (and paints) are gone, and have since been replaced by a new generation of coatings, which, although not perfect, are light years ahead of those early offerings, and better that oils in almost every respect. Phew, that feels better.

:huray:

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 Post subject: Re: Waterbased users
PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:47 am 
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On a related note, I came across this on the Dulux Trade Paint Expert site.

https://www.duluxtradepaintexpert.co.uk ... iant-white

Full of euphemisms, half-hearted apologies, marketing kid-on, but this comment just floored me. :shock: :shock: :shock:

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"however it is worth noting that according to Dulux's own tests it's still not quite as good as the pre-2010 paints. Something I guess we will just have to live with"

Not quite as good as pre-2010 paints? One way of putting it I suppose. But the 'something we just have to live with' is simply not true. So if that's the case, why the last line cop-out about using WB Ecosure for long lasting whiteness?? BTW, that stuff I found to be pretty rubbish in the WB stakes.

This is, in a nutshell, why so many professionals dropped Dulux Trade. It wasn't just the products, but this whiny, apologetic attitude they adopted, implying they did nothing wrong, when in fact the trade was screaming at them to fix their paints. And lets not scratch at the DDC network thing.......

Sorry fitzy if this comes off as a hijack on your thread, but I thought it was related in topic. :salute: :thumbright:

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 Post subject: Re: Waterbased users
PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 8:57 am 
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One reason for using oil based satin recently was higher sheen level than water based- although I think the Armstead is better for this? Tried using meths for clean up this week did seem to help, although the big time saver was my dustless sanding set up- made time on a really tight schedule as reduced clean up.


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 Post subject: Re: Waterbased users
PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:28 am 
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I am sold on Johnstones WB. I quite like the gloss as it is not too glossy and on a job I did a couple of weeks back I used a combination of satin and gloss on some panelling I built. The shelf and skirting parts I did in gloss and the panelling I did in satin. To be honest there is very little difference between the two when you see them side by side and it works quiet well. Joshnstones Aqua is a hybrid paint as it is not water soluble and you need white spirit to get it off your hands. I chuck the brushes anyway.

With the satin you can get three coats on in a day and it is a breeze to use. The gloss is a bit more work and needs 6 hours between coats, plus you always need two coats at least as it has a bit of a streaky look where it does not lay at the same density all over the work like oil which used to self level.

Not had any yellowing issues though.

DWD


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 Post subject: Re: Waterbased users
PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:56 pm 
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I started college around 2008 and it was all about waterbased, anticipating the 2010 reg change. For me, oil based has always been a bit unnatural as I was taught acrylic from the start. I'm no expert but oil based obviously has its uses. More durable, higher gloss finish, great flow. I'll use an oil based Cover Stain when needed. A front door or exterior window frames look great in a high gloss finish, obviously. I have to say I can't get my head around solvent based still being quite prominent in interior work. How many times do you walk into a relatively recently built property to find yellow trim? It looks terrible.

I've 'grown up' on acrylic though. The first really good satin I used was Johnnos Aqua about 5 years ago. Really nice to use but a pain to clean brushes as it was a hybrid. I'd imagine it's evolved a bit since then. For ages I actually used Wickes Trade Truewhite Satin. Always got on well with it. On the job I'm on now I picked up a tin of Armstead QD Satin. I've read good things about it so I'm excited to use it.

Kind of related, but has anyone ever had trouble applying acrylic satin over acrylic undercoat? The first coat of Satin tends to go off really quickly, so quickly that it drags even when laying off a foot long window sill. Second coat is always fine. Is this always eliminated by using WB over OB undercoat?


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 Post subject: Re: Waterbased users
PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 8:37 pm 
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I picked up some Armstead satin today on Dynas recommendation, done 1 coat over preprimed mdf, cracking stuff. I took my time to test the open time, seemed open for ages.
Lovely feel to it and cheap as chips - 2.5 litres £19.99plus vat.

It's will be my go to satin now.

Cheers Dyna.



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 Post subject: Re: Waterbased users
PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 11:39 pm 
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i know water based paints have been around for 30 years but its 3/4 years since i went w/b and the changes in that time are mega, its more amount of w/b that are now on the market, but the range in fantastic, Mythic Black label, Tikkurila Helmi, Benjamin moore, Sikkens, i dont use any uk big three brands as they are p*ss poor compared to imported brands.

theres too many reasons to not use oil and too many reasons to use water based, like already said any time i use oil i feel ill.

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