Bathroom extractor fan

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Bathroom extractor fan

Post by Playback » Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:11 pm

Hello

I have replaced the extractor fan in my bathroom because it stopped working.

The old fan was a 240V Orbit 30 with an overrun / moisture control module, but the new one is a 12V Orbit 30 without a control module (which doesn't bother me).

I photographed the old wiring to make sure that I didn't accidentally switch any of the cables.

However, the old 240V fan (or rather, its control module) was labelled with N, L and T, but the transformer for the 12V fan has N, L and SL. So, I wired the transformer as follows:

Neutral (grey cable with a blue sleeve) to N
Live (brown cable) to L
Switched live (black cable with red sleeve) to SL

I then wired the transformer to the fan.

However, when I switch the fan isolator switch on, the fan switches on even though the light switch is off. I'm guessing that the live and switched live must be reversed, but wondered if anyone could provide any insight before I disconnect it all to swap the cables in the transformer?

Thanks for any help you can provide.
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Re: Bathroom extractor fan

Post by wine~o » Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:35 pm

:welcomeuhm:

"T" should be the permanent live, "L" is where the switched live should be. Does that help ?

EDIT nope, sorry misread your post, try swapping your live and switched live. worst that can happen is that it still doesn't work as expected...
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Re: Bathroom extractor fan

Post by arco_iris » Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:46 pm

:welcomeuhm:

Not directly answering your question, wait for someone-else (!) to get their head round it. Wiring sounds right to me or try wine~o's suggestion.

But just a thought, could it be that, you have it right and, as the transformer keeps power to the fan for a timed period after the light is switched off (this is usually adjustable by a small turn switch inside the casing) that either,

a. the transformer needs to run for the first time, for that period, and will go off if you leave it running, or,

b. the adjustment (may be a tiny knob, or a round bit with a screwdriver slot in it) is set to "Maximum=On permanently" and needs turning back.
:dunno:
What do the instructions say?
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Re: Bathroom extractor fan

Post by Playback » Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:16 am

Thanks for the responses.

Had a 'moment' with my original post; it's an Airflow Icon 30 S not an Orbit!

I've re-read the installation instructions and it only has two diagrams: one with 2 connections in (L & N) and 2 out (0V & 12V); and, one with 3 connections in (N, L & SL) and 3 connections out (0V, 12V and T). The fan itself only has 0V and 12V connections; presumably the control module adds the T connector (as it does with the old 240V fan). The instructions (available here https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technical/ ... N_SELV.pdf ) don't mention any controls in the transformer and I'll have to dismantle it to have a look.

I would still have expected it to switch with the light without a control module, but maybe I need to add a 12V control module to get switching? (I'll need to buy a new 12V module since the 240V one in the old fan is not compatible.)

I have tried leaving it on for 5 minutes with the light switched off but the fan stays on.

If I switch the L and SL into the transformer, could I cause any damage?

Thanks
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Re: Bathroom extractor fan

Post by someone-else » Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:31 am

Playback wrote:If I switch the L and SL into the transformer, could I cause any damage?
L is Live
SL is Switched Live (In the diagram its Ls)

So swapping a Live for a switched Live is not a problem.

The switched live normally only becomes live when you switch the light on. The idea being that when the light is turned on the timer starts because it sees a live on the switched live terminal, when the time runs out it will start again if there is still a live on the SL terminal, if there is no live on the SL terminal the timer will stop after the time runs out.

If you want to test the fan on its own, you could take it down, put a plug on a piece of flex, and connect the other end of the flex to Live and neutral on the fan and plug it in, when plugged in (and the socket switched on) the fan should run, when unplugged the fan should stop. (Miracle if it didn't stop :lol: )
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Re: Bathroom extractor fan

Post by arco_iris » Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:32 am

iCON_SELV.pdf
(569.74 KiB) Downloaded 26 times
Playback wrote:The instructions don't mention any controls in the transformer and I'll have to dismantle it to have a look.
Yes they do, "Module Adjustment" bottom rhs of first page. Factory set to 20 minutes of 0-45.
Playback wrote:maybe I need to add a 12V control module to get switching?
I haven't studied any of this but it looks to me like you are supposed to order (a) your chosen power/airflow fan unit, and then additionally (b) your choice of control module according to what you want to achieve. As in, further down the page, "Related items you may need".

The oik at tlc is simply going to drop in the carton the bit you put on your order, he isn't going to say, "hang on, this guy hasn't ordered all he needs, should I query this?"

As in "you want fries with that?"
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Re: Bathroom extractor fan

Post by Playback » Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:26 am

Playback wrote:The instructions don't mention any controls in the transformer and I'll have to dismantle it to have a look.
Yes they do, "Module Adjustment" bottom rhs of first page. Factory set to 20 minutes of 0-45.
The instructions your refer to relate to a module adjustment, not the transformer. This is only applicable if an optional control module is installed, which it isn't.
I haven't studied any of this but it looks to me like you are supposed to order (a) your chosen power/airflow fan unit, and then additionally (b) your choice of control module according to what you want to achieve. As in, https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/ADICON30.html further down the page, "Related items you may need".
A control module is optional. I don't need (or want) a PIR sensor or humidity monitor or pull-cord. The only useful feature (for me) is a delayed start with overrun, which I'm happy to live without (especially since, on the previous 240V version, the maximum delay was too short and the the minimum overrun was too long). I just want a fan that switches on / off with the light switch.
The oik at tlc is simply going to drop in the carton the bit you put on your order, he isn't going to say, "hang on, this guy hasn't ordered all he needs, should I query this?"

As in "you want fries with that?"
Not everyone wants "fries", some of us just want what we ask for (even though we might not ask for what we think we want :-) ).

Thanks anyway.
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Re: Bathroom extractor fan

Post by wine~o » Thu Jan 31, 2019 6:15 pm

any chance of an "as installed" diagram or even pictures ?
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