Are there any intelligent boilers??

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BigGeeGee
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Are there any intelligent boilers??

Post by BigGeeGee » Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:45 pm

I fitted my Worcester 40CDi condensing boiler in 2008 and it’s been “ok”

I don’t want a combi, before anyone asks :)

Since that time (10 years ago) I can’t see boilers have moved on much. This is the era of AI and IoT but I can’t see any intelligent boilers.

I have a large house, lots of rads, lots of u/f heating and indirect water heating. My boiler is a pain in some ways. In the winter I can use all that power, in the summer it can’t modulate down enough. It “works” but it’s annoying as it comes on goes off constantly.

Anyway, only question is: anyone know of any intelligent boilers?
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ericmark
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Re: Are there any intelligent boilers??

Post by ericmark » Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:24 pm

Opentherm is likely the biggest advance, it is simply the manufacturers have got together (except bosch) and designed a way that third party hardware can control the boiler.

So the TRV tells the thermostat or hub what it requires, all the requirements are added together and the hub/thermostat tells the boiler what temperature to heat the water to.

As to if it actually works not a clue, I have a silly bosch boiler so not open for me.
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Re: Are there any intelligent boilers??

Post by Rorschach » Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:30 am

Yeah, a combi.
D Hailsham
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Re: Are there any intelligent boilers??

Post by D Hailsham » Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:33 am

It all depends on what you mean by "intelligent". In the Opentherm system the Thermostat is the "master" giving instructions to the boiler, which is the "slave". The only instruction the master can give is the flow temperature. All the slave can do is regulate the temperature to meet the master's wishes. The slave doesn't know, or need to know, how the master determined the temperature; and the master doesn't know, or need to know, how the slave controls the temperature. Is that an "intelligent" boiler?

Incidentally, Opentherm was not invented by boiler manufacturers but by Honeywell, who sold the patent in the 1990's for £1 to what eventually became the Opentherm Association.
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Re: Are there any intelligent boilers??

Post by Bob225 » Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:55 am

The ufh should be zoned and on its own controls, and maybe the main heating system split into 2 zones

there are plenty of control systems on the market it all depends what you want to spend - If the house is that large think about a dual boiler setup - the worlds your lobster
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Re: Are there any intelligent boilers??

Post by kellys_eye » Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:57 am

Carol Vorderman
sent from my laptop using my fingers - because we REALLY need to know where it's come from.....
PLB
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Re: Are there any intelligent boilers??

Post by PLB » Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:27 pm

D Hailsham wrote:It all depends on what you mean by "intelligent". In the Opentherm system the Thermostat is the "master" giving instructions to the boiler, which is the "slave". The only instruction the master can give is the flow temperature. All the slave can do is regulate the temperature to meet the master's wishes. The slave doesn't know, or need to know, how the master determined the temperature; and the master doesn't know, or need to know, how the slave controls the temperature. Is that an "intelligent" boiler?

Incidentally, Opentherm was not invented by boiler manufacturers but by Honeywell, who sold the patent in the 1990's for £1 to what eventually became the Opentherm Association.
Just to add Dave and hopefully you will agree that opentherm is a bi directional protocol.
As an example, my nest thermostat will show an error if opentherm data is not received back from the boiler.
Obviously, I'm not talking about the error message you get if the (weave) rf link goes down between the thermostat and the heat link. That shows a different error alert.
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Re: Are there any intelligent boilers??

Post by D Hailsham » Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:59 am

PLB wrote:Just to add Dave and hopefully you will agree that opentherm is a bi directional protocol.
Of course; but the traffic from boiler to thermostat will be just supplying information requested by the thermostat, e.g current flow/return temperatures, fan speed etc.
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Re: Are there any intelligent boilers??

Post by gas4you » Sun Nov 04, 2018 12:28 pm

Not that I know much about these intelligent boilers things, I only usually deal in basic controls, but I would have thought the Intergas utilising pin 5 or perhaps the Vaillant iq range, I think that is what it’s called or something similar, would be about as intelligent as can be at present.
Dave

www.drlgas.co.uk
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Re: Are there any intelligent boilers??

Post by Bob225 » Sun Nov 04, 2018 1:33 pm

We don't want them to intelligent there be smarter than some of the RGI's fitting them :wink:


There is something to said about just going with a simple system - It will still work 10 years down the line when these new systems will be defunct or if it goes wrong 4-5 years down the line its all going have to be ripped out and replaced
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Re: Are there any intelligent boilers??

Post by PLB » Sun Nov 04, 2018 3:55 pm

D Hailsham wrote:
PLB wrote:Just to add Dave and hopefully you will agree that opentherm is a bi directional protocol.
Of course; but the traffic from boiler to thermostat will be just supplying information requested by the thermostat, e.g current flow/return temperatures, fan speed etc.
Yes, agreed Dave but I thought it useful to others who may read this thread in the future to make it clear that although as you say the stat (master) gives instructions to the boiler it also receives instructions as confirmed by your reply. :thumbleft:
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Re: Are there any intelligent boilers??

Post by PLB » Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:33 pm

Maybe an interesting read for the OP and others ?

https://www.intergasheating.co.uk/installer/news/
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Re: Are there any intelligent boilers??

Post by D Hailsham » Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:09 am

PLB wrote:
D Hailsham wrote:
PLB wrote:Just to add Dave and hopefully you will agree that opentherm is a bi directional protocol.
Of course; but the traffic from boiler to thermostat will be just supplying information requested by the thermostat, e.g current flow/return temperatures, fan speed etc.
Yes, agreed Dave but I thought it useful to others who may read this thread in the future to make it clear that although as you say the stat (master) gives instructions to the boiler it also receives instructions as confirmed by your reply. :thumbleft:
That's not what I wrote. The boiler never gives instructions to the thermostat; it just supplies the thermostat with information which has been requested by the stat.
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Re: Are there any intelligent boilers??

Post by PLB » Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:34 pm

D Hailsham wrote:
PLB wrote:
D Hailsham wrote:
PLB wrote:Just to add Dave and hopefully you will agree that opentherm is a bi directional protocol.
Of course; but the traffic from boiler to thermostat will be just supplying information requested by the thermostat, e.g current flow/return temperatures, fan speed etc.
Yes, agreed Dave but I thought it useful to others who may read this thread in the future to make it clear that although as you say the stat (master) gives instructions to the boiler it also receives instructions as confirmed by your reply. :thumbleft:
That's not what I wrote. The boiler never gives instructions to the thermostat; it just supplies the thermostat with information which has been requested by the stat.
Apologies I agree, I used the wrong word in my previous post and meant to say receives "information" instead of instructions.
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Re: Are there any intelligent boilers??

Post by ericmark » Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:35 am

There are other things boilers can do, one is an outside sensor to alter things, as to what it alters I really don't know, likely water temperature.

I have read where some boilers can modulate more than others, think mine is 6 kW to 24 kW however how it works with multi items on the output I have found can really miss lead. If the boiler had a bar graph showing output you would know what it's doing, however all the user sees is running.

My son was convinced his boiler was not big enough, what was happening was all his lock shield valves were wide open, but once system was running the TRV's would close so every radiator took what it needed, however switch off and restart 8 hours latter and all the water went through nearest radiator and returned to boiler hot so boiler modulated, hard to explain to some one why turning down radiators makes the house warmer.

Most zone valves are open or closed they don't gradually open or close, so one zone can reduce boiler output to another, it can get rather complex, I would say if it works leave it alone.
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