Alarm (internal) went off when not set - tamper

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Alarm (internal) went off when not set - tamper

Post by MrMrMr » Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:11 pm

Got woke up with alarm going off, was just the internal alarm sound from the main control pad.

Had to enter my code to stop, it had a red light on the little hammer sign which indicates tamper.

I've had it a few times over the years now. Few months ago I went around all PIRs, removed covers, dusted checked micro switch, and was ok for a while.

I've had the main battery changed 3 years ago.

So to be honest the tamper probably isn't needed as if they are going to mess about with the outside alarm box which is high up in in trouble then anyway!

So is it easy to link out if it's this? Is the tamper worth it? Is it just one wire in the main box. Could it be anything else you think?

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Re: Alarm (internal) went off when not set - tamper

Post by someone-else » Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:43 pm

Depends what panel it is.
Some panels have "global tamper" others have a tamper for each circuit.

The idea of tamper is to protect all device on the alarm from...............being tampered with.
It could be that a joint is going high resistance or that a cable is damaged.
Dissconecting the tamper solves the problem, it does not solve the cause, ideally, you should get your multimeter out (you have got one, haven't you?) and check the resistance of the tamper circuit and take it from there.
As an aside, the external sounder usually has its own tamper, so linking out the tamper in the panel still leaves the sounder tamper working.
Fret not, a forum is a collection of opinions. Above, are mine.

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Working on anything electrical? have you got a multi meter? why not? Would you hit a nail with a shoe?

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Alarm (internal) went off when not set - tamper

Post by MrMrMr » Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:53 pm

someone-else wrote:Depends what panel it is.
Some panels have "global tamper" others have a tamper for each circuit.

The idea of tamper is to protect all device on the alarm from...............being tampered with.
It could be that a joint is going high resistance or that a cable is damaged.
Dissconecting the tamper solves the problem, it does not solve the cause, ideally, you should get your multimeter out (you have got one, haven't you?) and check the resistance of the tamper circuit and take it from there.
As an aside, the external sounder usually has its own tamper, so linking out the tamper in the panel still leaves the sounder tamper working.
Sorry thought I'd put it in, it's a Scantronic 9448+ i believe with a remote keypad 9427 style.

It won't fix the cause your correct if linking it out, but is the tamper worth it in a house, can understand in business premises but not important in houses?
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Re: Alarm (internal) went off when not set - tamper

Post by someone-else » Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:19 am

MrMrMr wrote: but is the tamper worth it in a house,
Yes.
Fret not, a forum is a collection of opinions. Above, are mine.

Which is correct? Metre or Meter? Click the link to find out more.

Working on anything electrical? have you got a multi meter? why not? Would you hit a nail with a shoe?

If gloom had a voice, it would be me. :mrgreen:

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Alarm (internal) went off when not set - tamper

Post by MrMrMr » Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:21 am

someone-else wrote:
MrMrMr wrote: but is the tamper worth it in a house,
Yes.
Why, if to stop tamper inside, it's too late, if for the bell box I can understand more, but if they decide to get ladders, mess with alarm box outside front of my house, I'm in trouble by then anyway.

So it's not a massive risk to link out in my scenario?
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Re: Alarm (internal) went off when not set - tamper

Post by OnlyMe » Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:38 pm

MrMrMr wrote:
someone-else wrote:
MrMrMr wrote: but is the tamper worth it in a house,
Yes.
Why, if to stop tamper inside, it's too late, if for the bell box I can understand more, but if they decide to get ladders, mess with alarm box outside front of my house, I'm in trouble by then anyway.

So it's not a massive risk to link out in my scenario?
Half the alarm boxes I see have the tamper already shorted out. There are normally two tampers. One for the detectors and one for the bell box. The remote keypad (on the Veritas stuff I fit) does not have a tamper loop but it still has a tamper.
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Re: Alarm (internal) went off when not set - tamper

Post by MrMrMr » Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:09 pm

OnlyMe wrote:
MrMrMr wrote:
someone-else wrote:
MrMrMr wrote: but is the tamper worth it in a house,
Yes.
Why, if to stop tamper inside, it's too late, if for the bell box I can understand more, but if they decide to get ladders, mess with alarm box outside front of my house, I'm in trouble by then anyway.

So it's not a massive risk to link out in my scenario?
Half the alarm boxes I see have the tamper already shorted out. There are normally two tampers. One for the detectors and one for the bell box. The remote keypad (on the Veritas stuff I fit) does not have a tamper loop but it still has a tamper.
Ok I'll have a look over the Weekend and no doubt ask what to link out ha ha..

When you say the remote keypad hasn't got a tamper loop but has a tamper what does this mean please? Anything I can check on this?

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Re: Alarm (internal) went off when not set - tamper

Post by someone-else » Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:52 pm

MrMrMr wrote:When you say the remote keypad hasn't got a tamper loop but has a tamper what does this mean please?
It means what it says. That the RKP has a tamper, but it is not wired into the tamper loop.

May I also ask when you reply PLEASE stop using the quote button for everything that has been said.
Fret not, a forum is a collection of opinions. Above, are mine.

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Re: Alarm (internal) went off when not set - tamper

Post by OnlyMe » Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:58 pm

MrMrMr wrote: When you say the remote keypad hasn't got a tamper loop but has a tamper what does this mean please? Anything I can check on this?

Thanks
All you can do is check that the lid on the keypad is secure. There is a microswitch behind the lid. You cannot link it out as there are no user terminals for it. The keypad communicates with the panel using data signals.
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Re: Alarm (internal) went off when not set - tamper

Post by MrMrMr » Mon Dec 24, 2018 10:54 pm

So I linked out the tamper, according to the manual, for the PIRs. Just had the alarm go off for tamper again....was ok for a few days as well before this.

So does this mean its the bell box or the keypad? (I doubt that keypad as seems secure).

I couldn't work out the bell box tamper to link it out, could someone help with this please?

I'll take the remote keypad off again but as already mentioned you can't link this out think anyway.
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Re: Alarm (internal) went off when not set - tamper

Post by someone-else » Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:50 pm

You put a link between 0v and Tr

But if there is a problem with the sounder itself, it will still activate, because all the link does is tell the panel not to activate, but at least you will have a better idea of what is what.

Question: How exactly did you link out the global tamper?
Fret not, a forum is a collection of opinions. Above, are mine.

Which is correct? Metre or Meter? Click the link to find out more.

Working on anything electrical? have you got a multi meter? why not? Would you hit a nail with a shoe?

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Re: Alarm (internal) went off when not set - tamper

Post by MrMrMr » Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:57 pm

I linked the A/T (anti tamper) on the main box out together, as in the pic now from the manual in the grey link. This will link out all the PIRs. Is this correct? If so I've filled out the PIR tamper have a problem?

Image

The sounder/bell box wasn't sure how to link out, the drawings shown below is from the manual if you can help?
Image
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Re: Alarm (internal) went off when not set - tamper

Post by someone-else » Tue Dec 25, 2018 12:53 am

No idea what you mean when you said "If so I've filled out the PIR tamper have a problem?"



My answer to linking out the external sounder tamper still stands

You put a link between 0v and Tr
Fret not, a forum is a collection of opinions. Above, are mine.

Which is correct? Metre or Meter? Click the link to find out more.

Working on anything electrical? have you got a multi meter? why not? Would you hit a nail with a shoe?

If gloom had a voice, it would be me. :mrgreen:

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Re: Alarm (internal) went off when not set - tamper

Post by MrMrMr » Tue Dec 25, 2018 2:01 am

someone-else wrote:No idea what you mean when you said "If so I've filled out the PIR tamper have a problem?"
Typo, meant to say "... Linked out the"
someone-else wrote: My answer to linking out the external sounder tamper still stands

You put a link between 0v and Tr
Didn't realise this was for external sounder sorry, thought was referencing the PIR.

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Re: Alarm (internal) went off when not set - tamper

Post by MrMrMr » Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:15 am

Well went away but last 2 days it's went off lots.

Is there a way to just disable tamper altogether? Everytime it's went off its been unarmed and the tamper light is only one that comes on.

Yesterday it took a few goes before it stopped sounding.

I'm off today so need to try and do something a bit more permanent. I presume from above I've linked out the PIR tamper, above says I can't link out remote keypad, but can I link out the outside siren? I can't with out how to.

Thanks
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