FFS plan the job!

Painting and decorating, plaster mouldings, Artexing questions

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54aardvark
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FFS plan the job!

Post by 54aardvark » Sat Sep 01, 2018 2:52 pm

Why on earth do clients put in a fancy new kitchen or bathroom, and then ring to get you to decorate.

They have generally replaced/patched plasterboard (I do my own taping & plastering) and a lot more prep where they have changed the layout. The amount of sheeting up & masking is ridiculous and I am then playing Harry Houdini trying to get a decent job up and over wall units, getting clean lines down half inch gaps between units and door frames etc and trying to work around big fancy cookers and sink taps.

Get me in when the room has been gutted and any plasterboard fitted, I can then tape & fill. Next day they can fit the base units, day after plaster is dry enough to sand, mist and at least one finish coat before they fit the wall units etc.

Just finished one this week, took me nearly three days to complete - if they'd used the above method they would only have paid for one & half days labour. My neck, back & shoulders would feel a lot healthier and my stress levels down from having to suppress the F'ing & blinding!

I've been offered 5 of these this year and turned 3 of them down as being too much hassle, only accepted the other 2 as they are regular clients - but left them in no doubt to contact me before they even start thinking of their next work.
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Re: FFS plan the job!

Post by Ktuludays » Sat Sep 01, 2018 5:23 pm

Yeah sadly very common that some wait till after it's all fitted. It is a pain in the arse but like you mentioned it takes longer and they pay for double the time. Stupidity costs.

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Re: FFS plan the job!

Post by Rorschach » Sat Sep 01, 2018 7:03 pm

I think lots of jobs are like that, if people just had a think about it and chatted with the people involved they could save time, hassle and a lot of money.

When I did my kitchen we did as much of the decorating, filling etc as we could before units went in, made things a lot easier. Now we have the walls filled with cabinets I am not looking forward to future redecoration :lol:
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Re: FFS plan the job!

Post by 54aardvark » Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:34 am

Yes, re-decorating kitchens can be difficult, but the prep involved with a new kitchen can be a pain - literally!

I think I'm getting too old for all this - but only 2 years to state pension.
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Re: FFS plan the job!

Post by arco_iris » Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:58 am

Comment from the other side:

Refurbishing a complete bungalow, I got the decorator in after the plaster had dried, before electric second fix so he didn't have to remove switches & sockets or spot lights, before the kitchen & bathroom were fitted, before radiators fitted and pre-finished doors hung. It looked pretty good.

The electrician then came in, shaved excess plaster out of the back boxes, in some cases it broke out further than the plate would cover; broke out plaster when fitting spot lights. The plumber put radiator pipes through wall & ceilings, brick dust dropped onto skirtings, and pencil marks where he lined up the towel rail; the carpenter removed all the door stops which also peeled off sheets of the underlying 50 year old paint on the linings.

So the decorator has got to come back, which he can't do for four weeks, to redo the decorations that were done earlier - he says in some cases he can't patch or it will show, so will have to repaint entire walls/ceilings. Doors and switches, & the towel rail, will have to be removed in order to make good. Which defeats the object of getting decorator first, as you suggest.

Granted you're talking specifically about kitchens being awkward to decorate after installation, but the principle is the same - in whatever order jobs are planned, one trade undoes the completed work of another. And, having booked and waited for a trade to do their work in one hit, it's not easy to get them back in a hurry. Nightmare.
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Re: FFS plan the job!

Post by Job and Knock » Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:05 pm

As a chippie I'll add that in many modern buildings you can end up having to cut-out sections of plasterboard so that you can get plywood patresses into the wall voids to actually hang the cabinets on. That tends to banjax the decorating somewhat before we even get onto boxing in pipework and adjusting skirtings in older buildings (all of which requires decorating afterwards)
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Re: FFS plan the job!

Post by bronz01 » Tue Sep 04, 2018 1:24 pm

It's a tricky one. I generally aimed to get the mist coat and first coat on walls and ceilings, then come back for the final attack once everything else was done, to include making good all the other trades' pencil marks and gleeful hacking of plaster. Not as nice as cracking on and doing it in one go, but normally the most efficient in the end in terms of not having to redo too much.
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Re: FFS plan the job!

Post by Tom d'Angler » Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:57 am

Which defeats the object of getting decorator first
I agree. I always suggest to customers that I am the last tradesman in, apart from the carpet / flooring fitter. If I think a job is going to end up being awkward because of newly-fitted cabinets, tight access for my stepladder, etc., I price my quote accordingly, using the trusted "PITA" (pain in the arse) factor.

The PITA factor is also applied if the customer themselves seems like they are going to be awkward in some way.

Sometimes, I will add a PITA factor because I just don't want the job. No matter how much PITA factor I add to the quote, I always end up getting the job!
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Re: FFS plan the job!

Post by dandecor » Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:10 am

Tom d'Angler wrote:
Sometimes, I will add a PITA factor because I just don't want the job. No matter how much PITA factor I add to the quote, I always end up getting the job!
Is there a scale of the PITA factor like 1-5 [emoji23] haha that’s really made me laugh it’s brilliant


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Re: FFS plan the job!

Post by Grendel » Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:23 am

bronz01 wrote:It's a tricky one. I generally aimed to get the mist coat and first coat on walls and ceilings, then come back for the final attack once everything else was done, to include making good all the other trades' pencil marks and gleeful hacking of plaster. Not as nice as cracking on and doing it in one go, but normally the most efficient in the end in terms of not having to redo too much.
Did one kitchen last year where I had to do everything , kitchen itself , decorating and tiling floor and walls and I went at it just as you suggest although I think I gave the ceiling the final coat before the kitchen went in. Seemed to me to be the best approach.
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Re: FFS plan the job!

Post by Tom d'Angler » Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:54 am

Is there a scale of the PITA factor like 1-5
Yes. A PITA of 2 would be twice my normal price. :lol:

A PITA factor of 1.5 or 2 is fairly common. It is rare for a PITA factor to be higher than 2. I haven't experienced a PITA factor of 5 yet.

Around six years ago, I was asked to quote for a job for a bloke who I found out had done porridge for a sex offence. (In fact, at the time, I asked on here if other people thought I should do the job.) As a result, his PITA factor was very high at 4 because I assumed the high price meant he would never accept my quote. Amazingly, he accepted the quote and I did the job! (Although I parked my sign-written van around the corner :lol: )
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Re: FFS plan the job!

Post by dandecor » Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:26 am

I may adopt the pita formula.


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Re: FFS plan the job!

Post by Tom d'Angler » Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:39 am

:lol:
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Re: FFS plan the job!

Post by 54aardvark » Sat Sep 08, 2018 12:38 pm

I'm with Bronz on this one, I'd expect to get the basics done - plasterwork, ceiling finished, mist & first coat before the units go in and, as Tom says, ensure I'm the last person in to sort the final finish and any snags.
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Re: FFS plan the job!

Post by Lewis H » Sat Sep 08, 2018 5:22 pm

Sod that, I don't want my diary dictated by progress with the plasterer, plumber and kitchen fitter. Get me in at the end, I'll show up as soon as my own schedule allows and charge you the inflated price that the job warrants.
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