Best scrubbable matt emulsion that actually is matt

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pompeyjim
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Best scrubbable matt emulsion that actually is matt

Post by pompeyjim » Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:05 pm

Anybody tried all the various scrubbable/wipeable matt emulsions?

Reason I ask is just doing my hall in crown trade clean extreme matt and it's by no means matt. To my eyes it has far too much sheen.

I have Johnstone's in the kitchen (think it's called cleanable matt) and that looks much more matt but I didn't go for that again as the colour match was nothing like what I asked for.

I believe dulux now do a scrubbable flat matt so could try that or maybe valspar.

Anyone with a definitive answer on the sheen levels would be greatly appreciated
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Re: Best scrubbable matt emulsion that actually is matt

Post by fitzy » Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:46 pm

If the customer is prepared to pay, I use johnstones trade vinyl matt followed by two coats of polyvine flat matt decorator's varnish.

It really is bullet proof gear.

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Re: Best scrubbable matt emulsion that actually is matt

Post by dynamod » Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:40 am

:withstupid:

Maybe the best option, as all the durable matt finishes have an ever so slight sheen to them.

I found Johnstones Endura & Little Greene Intelligent Matt to be the best of the bunch. Intelligent Matt is a superb paint but at a price. So much depends on the light in a room with these paints I find.
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Re: Best scrubbable matt emulsion that actually is matt

Post by jmt » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:29 am

Johnstone' s cleanable matt has a sheen level of around 5%, does the polyvine create issues when you come to overcoating?
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Re: Best scrubbable matt emulsion that actually is matt

Post by fitzy » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:08 pm

jmt wrote:Johnstone' s cleanable matt has a sheen level of around 5%, does the polyvine create issues when you come to overcoating?
No, because it's just a colourless waterbased coating.

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Re: Best scrubbable matt emulsion that actually is matt

Post by Have Brush Will Travel » Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:10 pm

Tikkurilla is sposed to be good, not sure about the sheen level yet though as I aint used it.
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Re: Best scrubbable matt emulsion that actually is matt

Post by muze77 » Thu May 03, 2018 8:53 am

Little Greene also do a flat matt, called absolute Matt. But for a hallway, I am not sure if you are sacrificing durability then!
The Intelligent Matt is an excellent paint.

for reference, I did a test of Intelligent Matt, your Johnstone's cleanable Matt, Mythic flat latex, Mythic eggshell latex, and Benjamin Moore Regal Matte all in the hallway.
I put ketchup up and smeared it everywhere, and also smeared the walls with a very dark, wet teabag. Test patches had two coats of the test paint on a base of acrylic primer, and were left to cure for seven days before I started. The ketchup left no stain on any of these. The tea was trickier.
  • Intelligent Matt had no stains at all.
    Cleanable Matt had none or close to none.
    Mythic flat and eggshell could not be cleared off the tea stains, they were much less but still clearly visible.
    Regal Matte had a very faint tea stain left.
You are right though, I have just finished a wall in Cleanable matt and there is definitely a sheen to it, more than the 5% suggests to me.
The only thing with Intellligent matt is that it smells like ammonia, and I do not like applying it, and the smell lasts for a few days. But then the cleanable matt has 10grams of VOCs and that also smells, but in a different way, more hydrocarbon like, if you will.

Actually, the Benjamin Moore option might work for you. The Regal flat has less sheen to my eyes than the Cleanable Matt, plus you can get an ultradurable version called the Aura, or a hallway specific one called Scuff X, but I don't know the sheen on that.
The Regal was actually so much easier to apply, I loved it. Whereas I am still having a lot of problems with the Cleanable Matt, it sticks to the roller rather than the wall, and leaves little specks everywhere. I found it needs thinning with at least 5% of water straight out of the can. Plus if you stick the roller into the fridge, it is cool the next day and that also helped for a while.

Might be worth having a look at the UK paint supplier of Benjamin Moore. They are expensive, but similar to Little Greene...
But I paid 73 pounds for tinted Cleanable Matt as well, so that is expensive enough to put it in a similar ballpark...

How did you find the application of the cleanable matt? (Was your coverage worse than expected? I needed three coats!)

PS. I had Cleanable Matt matched to Dulux timeless by the online store that gives free shirts and it was a satisfying match. But timeless is just an off white...
Last edited by muze77 on Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Best scrubbable matt emulsion that actually is matt

Post by muze77 » Thu May 03, 2018 10:27 am

Ok, I looked it up and it seems my intuition fits with the facts. BM Regal Select Matte has a 1.5-3.5% sheen at 85, so if Cleanable Matt is 5%, that might indeed be a discernible difference. The BM Aura Matte has 3.5-5 and the super hallway paint that is Scuff X has 8-13 so the latter is definitely not flat! (But Scuff X smells much more, which I think it is why they recommend it for commercial areas more than residential it seems...)

I am not sure we will find one less than 1.5%, other than the Absolute Matt by LG! Oops, that is actually 3%, just looked it up.

I just wish the BM paints were not so expensive for 3.79l tin! :cb They are such nice paints :thumbright:
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Re: Best scrubbable matt emulsion that actually is matt

Post by Desmondo15 » Thu May 03, 2018 4:53 pm

Been using BM Regal Select Flat for the last few weeks and it's a good Matt. Colours are a good depth. It doesn't need to be thinned, it's ready to go. I don't mind the prices but would be so much better in a 5 litre tin.
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Re: Best scrubbable matt emulsion that actually is matt

Post by muze77 » Wed May 23, 2018 11:20 am

Ok, this might be useful? The Cleanable Matt is on offer until Saturday 26 May 18 at Johnstone trade centres. They also now do a 1liter and 2.5liter rather than just 5l. Prices are 17.28, 34.94 and 63.60 incl. VAT for mixed colours, whites are cheaper. I have found none cheaper online, and no one else does the smaller cans yet (as of May 18).

That said, I have used Cleanable matt (5%), Little Greene Absolute Matt (3%) and Benjamin Moore Regal Select (1.5-3.5%) this week, and the BM paint is the winner for me. Breaking it down though, I would say:
  • Stain test winner: Little Greene, then Cleanable matt, followed very very closely by BM Regal Select
    Odour winner: BM, hardly anything (and I am chemically very sensitive), then Cleanable matt (slight oil smell), then Little Greene (ammonia smell for days)
    Scrubability: all very good
    Burnish resistance: BM and LG are excellent in their scratch resistance, Cleanable Matt needs a much longer time to cure, but then is ok (be careful initially as scrathes/scuffs before curing are very shiny). Also, when sanding, CM is very powdery, with the BM and LG the pigment seems much more bound to the paint layer, I wonder if this can explain the initial burnishing susceptibility?
    Application: BM and LG are a dream to apply. Cleanable Matt needs thinning out of the can! At least by 5% and I still had so much trouble, it came straight off the wall in places, stuck to the roller instead and needed vigorous sanding and sometimes filling before applying second coat. This was on an acryllic primer/undercoat, and my coverage was lousy too and I needed 3 coats. Maybe other people will fare better with it, depending on the substrate! It does apply well by brush.
Edit: I have realised that Cleanable Matt seems formulated very much like a trade paint, in other words, more difficult to apply if you are not used to it and needing thinning of 5% (or more) straight out of the can. The other brands that I mentioned are also used by tradesmen (see painterspitstop for a wealth of information on BM & LG paints) but are very forgiving for diy'ers, who can get very good results with them without having to thin, or worry about flashing etc. I know trade paints have good opacity but LG and BM have very good opacity in my experience.

Ifyou do not mind the ammonia-like smell for up to a week, then I'd say Little Greene Intelligent Matt (5%) is a very good choice for a hallway and particularly a kitchen! Has a lot of good feedback from parents. But I have not yet tried Benjamin Moore Aura Matte!
Last edited by muze77 on Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Best scrubbable matt emulsion that actually is matt

Post by Desmondo15 » Wed May 23, 2018 6:52 pm

Aura matte is superb, best I've used.
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Re: Best scrubbable matt emulsion that actually is matt

Post by muze77 » Fri May 25, 2018 9:20 am

I must add that after doing more tests, the burnishing of Cleanable Matt is actually fine now, no shiny marks left by scratching/scuffing anymore. It just needed to cure for longer than the other paints I tried.

Thanks Desmondo15, will try the Aura in a kitchen next! PS. I have also wondered how Johnstone's Endura Super Durable Matt compares to their cleanable matt, I have never understood the difference or technical need to have both (also, since the price is comparible at the moment).
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Re: Best scrubbable matt emulsion that actually is matt

Post by Desmondo15 » Fri May 25, 2018 12:18 pm

muze77 wrote:I must add that after doing more tests, the burnishing of Cleanable Matt is actually fine now, no shiny marks left by scratching/scuffing anymore. It just needed to cure for longer than the other paints I tried.

Thanks Desmondo15, will try the Aura in a kitchen next! PS. I have also wondered how Johnstone's Endura Super Durable Matt compares to their cleanable matt, I have never understood the difference or technical need to have both (also, since the price is comparible at the moment).
I remember it being quite shiny at an angle and expensive.
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