Stairs renovation

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Stairs renovation

Post by Sparky70 » Sat Nov 24, 2018 8:01 pm

Hi, we have a carpenter that is upgrading our stairs, he has cut the existing jewels down and dowelled in some new posts, the existing jewels were not level originally, could he of done anything to rectify them without replacing the whole newels ?Image


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Re: Stairs renovation

Post by big-all » Sat Nov 24, 2018 9:11 pm

what are you actually saying the newel leans to one side or the other or back and forth
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Re: Stairs renovation

Post by Sparky70 » Sat Nov 24, 2018 9:34 pm

big-all wrote:what are you actually saying the newel leans to one side or the other or back and forth
Yes, so its not level ?
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Re: Stairs renovation

Post by ayjay » Sat Nov 24, 2018 10:04 pm

Sparky70 wrote: could he of done anything to rectify them without replacing the whole newels ?
Yes, and no. The handrail and string set the position for the newels so just refitting to those with no alterations, the newels will end up just as out of plumb as they were originally.

The newel in your pic looks as though the top wants to go to the right (of the pic) to plumb it up, if that's the case, you'd either have to make the handrail longer or the string shorter, (in this instance as the newel is joined above the string, it might have been possible to offset it a little, that depends on how much has been trimmed off the new newel to flush it up with the old newel stub - probably not much).

One other way would be to lower the bottom end of the old newel, this will also lower the bottom tread on the newel side and may not be desirable if the tread is already level; and with the bottom of the riser buried under the laminate flooring it's a bit of a palaver to trim that back.

I don't think any chippie would alter any of those things off his own bat, they're historic from when the stairs were originally fitted.
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Re: Stairs renovation

Post by big-all » Sat Nov 24, 2018 11:29 pm

the way i am looking at it the handrail looks like its closing up towards the string at the bottom a bit
can you measure the top off the staircase and bottom off the staircase gap please in the vertical plane between string and handrail
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Re: Stairs renovation

Post by Domino86 » Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:00 am

Was the bottom post replaced as well. The post can either coming in 2 ways. 1: as a complete post or 2 : base and top ( bases is housed into the string and step and there is a hole on top of it for the dowel and the top post sits into it.

From the picture it looks as if the base and top post are all out of line/ plum. Going as if the top post on the landing is square each side. Means that the carpenter cut the handrail to short. But that would only sort the top of the post out. If the base of the post is out it will need adjusting a as well.

Edit: looked at the picture better. To be honest I come from a stairs background and that's a very bad way to replace a post in my opinion
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Re: Stairs renovation

Post by Sparky70 » Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:55 am

Domino86 wrote:Was the bottom post replaced as well. The post can either coming in 2 ways. 1: as a complete post or 2 : base and top ( bases is housed into the string and step and there is a hole on top of it for the dowel and the top post sits into it.

From the picture it looks as if the base and top post are all out of line/ plum. Going as if the top post on the landing is square each side. Means that the carpenter cut the handrail to short. But that would only sort the top of the post out. If the base of the post is out it will need adjusting a as well.

Edit: looked at the picture better. To be honest I come from a stairs background and that's a very bad way to replace a post in my opinion
The existing post has been cut down, I think it’s tenon jointed and fixed using steel dowels. The base is not level and I think he tried to correct it by levelling in the new top part but it didn’t look right so he mentioned to me that it wasn’t quite level.


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Re: Stairs renovation

Post by Sparky70 » Sun Nov 25, 2018 8:33 am

What I’m trying to say is that is this acceptable work and is it common for newels to be out of plumb ?


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Re: Stairs renovation

Post by Grendel » Sun Nov 25, 2018 8:53 am

Fitting to the exsisting newel and handrail is fitting between two fixed points so doesn't give much leeway. He could have used the handrail as the fixed point and moved the lower end of the new newel closer to the string to plumb it up. This would have left a small step which would mean the front face of the exsisting newel would need paring off and possibly the back face building out to prevent it looking tapered . In all honesty it would have been easier to replace the whole post.
Is it acceptable? That one's up to you as you're the one who has to live with it.
Is it common for newel to be out of plumb? Probably more common than one would think even if they should be plumb.
Probably not helped by the door looking as if it's out of plumb the other way unless that's camera distortion?
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Re: Stairs renovation

Post by Sparky70 » Sun Nov 25, 2018 12:10 pm

Image

Is this one better ? The door frame is dead level on the left, I suppose it’s not that bad by eye but sprit level tells a different story.


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Re: Stairs renovation

Post by Grendel » Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:06 pm

Seeing as it's been already fitted then your options are either to live with it or to ask for it to be completely replaced. How you wish to approach that is up to you but as it appears that the carpenter has replaced like for like and the original appears to have been out it could very well be reasonable to expect to pay him again iff there was no agreement prior to change the lean of the post.
In our house it probably wouldn't be noticed as my wife and daughter routinely hang their coats on the newel at the bottom of the stairs.
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Re: Stairs renovation

Post by big-all » Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:32 pm

make sure a sphere 100mm/4" wont pass through any gaps in the banister
i am surprized he hasnt tried to correct any lean as its not much extra work
did he use a jig off some sort on the top off the stump ??
is the one at the top leaning as well to match the bottom one ??
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Re: Stairs renovation

Post by Grendel » Sun Nov 25, 2018 8:00 pm

I'm wondering if he thought fitting a new section plumb to an out of plumb might end up with the post looking "bent"?
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Re: Stairs renovation

Post by big-all » Sun Nov 25, 2018 8:54 pm

or half and half reduce the visual effect :dunno: :dunno:
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Re: Stairs renovation

Post by Sparky70 » Sun Nov 25, 2018 11:01 pm

big-all wrote:the way i am looking at it the handrail looks like its closing up towards the string at the bottom a bit
can you measure the top off the staircase and bottom off the staircase gap please in the vertical plane between string and handrail
Hi, I've measured the length of the new handrail and the base rail, the handrail is approx 24mm shorter than the existing base rail ?
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