Getting new mdpe into bungalow

plumbing, drainage and waste water questions here please

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Dave54
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Getting new mdpe into bungalow

Post by Dave54 »

Long tale of woe here including leaking black Alkathene pipe that turned out to have about one joint per metre run, insurance repairs that left problems, and our decision to replace the water supply pipe to the bungalow.

Basically, and as far as can be seen, present supply goes down ridiculously deep (3 m + :shock: ) at the side of the extension.
It then disappears under the floor slab, to reappear several yards away in the toilet which is off the rear hall on the corner of the building.
So the new pipe isn't following that run.
What's the best and easiest way to get the new pipe in from outside in its yet to be dug 750mm deep trench, which will follow around the outside of the building to the nearest convenient point, into the corner of the toilet?
It's a standard cavity wall build late 70s, early 80s at a guess. Concrete floor of unknown thickness.

It's a bit complicated by the fact that I've got a guy who seems sensible and reasonably priced to do the outside work, and another guy I've used before to join the internal plumbing to the main bungalow. At the moment water comes in to the property at two places, but that's a PITA, and we want just one incoming connection.

I'm not trying to micro manage either of them, but I can see a potential problem in getting the pipe into the building, so I'd like that solved in advance.

Cheers.

Dave
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Getting new mdpe into bungalow

Post by Rorschach »

We had leaking black alkathene. Our plumber ran 15mm Pex inside the old alkathene pipe. Replacing the pipe was near impossible without digging a trench through 3 feet of concrete running the entire length of the property. Worked a treat.
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Getting new mdpe into bungalow

Post by Dave54 »

Thanks Rorschach. Certainly worth a thought, but I want to try to get the whole lot within reasonable reach if possible. The "tail" where it disappears under the slab is bl00dy deep!
We want to try to replace the lot with 25mm if possible.
No real problem with the trench, apart from a couple of drains to get round.
I was more thinking of if there's an easy way to get the pipe inside from the outside that allows a bit of "wriggle room".
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Getting new mdpe into bungalow

Post by Rorschach »

Bury a conduit in the trench and then run the pipe in that?

That's sort of what they did at our property, ran a clay pipe under the concrete and then put the pipes in there. It did help by the fact that when it leaked the water was drained from under the slab and didn't cause any damage, but because of the design of it it was impossible to run a new pipe in there, hence the trick of the 15mm pex inside it.
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Getting new mdpe into bungalow

Post by dewaltdisney »

How about bringing the new main up at the front of the property and running it up into the loft and marrying up to the cold feed there? The pipe could be boxed in internally with an easy accessible stopcock.

DWD
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Getting new mdpe into bungalow

Post by Dave54 »

Thanks for the ideas. :thumbright:
We don't really want sections running up the wall in the open if possible.
You can get insulated duct apparently, but don't really want to go that way if it's avoidable.

I was really just looking at bringing the pipe the last couple of feet from outside. I wondered if there was a clever way to do it with an existing building.
Looks like digging a hole outside to see how deep the concrete goes.
Then drill, and a bit of ducting to run the pipe through the concrete etc?
Good excuse to put it off for a bit until everything isn't a quagmire!
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Getting new mdpe into bungalow

Post by dewaltdisney »

With a bit more digging could you run it down the side of the house and work it in there or at the back? I was thinking you would have a digger on site so if access is possible that could work. I was trying to think of the least invasive and disruptive pathway in for the new supply.

DWD
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Post by Rorschach »

Definitely a warm weather job!
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Getting new mdpe into bungalow

Post by Dave54 »

dewaltdisney wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:56 pm
With a bit more digging could you run it down the side of the house and work it in there or at the back? I was thinking you would have a digger on site so if access is possible that could work. I was trying to think of the least invasive and disruptive pathway in for the new supply.

DWD
AT the moment it goes right around the bungalow to the "back" of the extension, that is the side that faces away from the road. It then continues to another point, which is at the back of the main bungalow. I imagine that the joint for that is under the floor of the extension somehow. So that's about 80 metres to the first point, and another ten or so to the next.
We were going to bring it in at the first point, and do the rest internally anyway.
But you've set me thinking Walt.
The nearest point is the garage around 40 metres from the road. The run could go In through the rear bottom corner of the (attached) garage. up, through the wall, and along inside the roof space, along the length of the bungalow, to connect to the plumbing up there, and extended through another wall to feed the extension toilet and utility room.

Would seem to do away with a lot of digging, and the resultant mess, as well as avoiding works around the rear of the property where all the drains are.

There was little logic to the way this place was built. Old, probably 1940s original bungalow to replace the cob cottage that I use as my workshop, and then a couple of extensions done in the 70s / 80s seemingly done for the most convenient with little thought for services etc.
Rorschach wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 1:55 pm
Definitely a warm weather job!
Yes, we're thinking if the pipework will hold the digging can wait a bit until we find the herd of elephants we lost in the mud after the repair contractors were digging!
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Getting new mdpe into bungalow

Post by dewaltdisney »

That sounds like a solution to me Dave, I would always look to see the least invasive way to do a job like that. Coming up through the garage would probably mean a less difficult and disruptive dug entry into the property. It is fairly easy to reroute the pipe flows to achieve the same result as exists once you are in, given it is a bungalow. Good luck sorting it, it sounds like a major ball ache for you :thumbright:

DWD
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Getting new mdpe into bungalow

Post by Dave54 »

dewaltdisney wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 6:22 pm
That sounds like a solution to me Dave, I would always look to see the least invasive way to do a job like that. Coming up through the garage would probably mean a less difficult and disruptive dug entry into the property. It is fairly easy to reroute the pipe flows to achieve the same result as exists once you are in, given it is a bungalow. Good luck sorting it, it sounds like a major ball ache for you :thumbright:

DWD
Yes, the ball ache you wouldn't believe! Not so much the pipe itself, but the whole thing has reminded me of why when anything goes wrong it's easier in some ways to do it yourself!
Anyway, I'd got the existing entry point fixed in my mind, once I saw what you'd put, it started me thinking. :lol:
So thanks again for that. :thumbright:
We might get somewhere with this job yet!
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Getting new mdpe into bungalow

Post by wine~o »

When we had ours done they used a mole, not a real Mole, just a remote controlled "Mole" like they used in "thunderbirds" but much smaller...

This then came up just outside the utility room and an insulated box built around the new pipe then through the wall and connected to the mains pipework internally via a new stopcock
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Getting new mdpe into bungalow

Post by Dave54 »

Cheers wine~o. I've seen those mole things on the internet. Not seen one in real life though. TBH, it's a field, so it's easy enough to just dig a trench.
I've seen on the net an idea of using a piece of soil pipe to bring the water pipe in, with a bit of insulated trunking inside that, and a cap either end. So if it gets to look tricky to come underground through a bit of trunking, an insulated box could well do the job. :thumbright:
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Post by dewaltdisney »

I was wondering how this job turned out Dave, seeing it was just before lockdown. Is it sorted?

DWD
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Getting new mdpe into bungalow

Post by Dave54 »

Not done yet Walt, we had one ridiculous quote, then found a sensible couple of blokes to do the work, but being as a fair bit has to be done inside, we've left it for the moment. . .
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