Hammerite on dishwasher tray - toxic ??

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dand99
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Hammerite on dishwasher tray - toxic ??

Post by dand99 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:02 pm

I've been trying to pin down the source of family-wide tummy upsets recently - and began thinking about a recent dishwasher tray repair...

A couple of months back I covered up a dozen or so rust spots on the dishwasher's bottom tray with (coppertone) hammerite, and I began thinking that they might be leaching something into the hot water.

I know these would be minuscule amounts after the water's dripped off the dishes, but I'd be glad to get some opinions as to whether this is a reasonable concern or not.
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Re: Hammerite on dishwasher tray - toxic ??

Post by Job and Knock » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:31 pm

Firstly metallic paints often contain either powdered aluminium or zinc phosphate (for silver colours) or powdered bronze (gold colours) and sometimes more than one of them. I don't think I want to ingest any of them. Hammerite paints contain lots of stuff for which there are operative warnings, most notably MEK (methyl ethyl ketone) prolonged exposure to which (in volume) can cause kidney and liver problems. But that's really at trade exposure levels. The way to find out about the toxicity of anything like this is to look at the COSHH sheet for the appropriate product on the manufacturers web site - they are published by law. I can tell you that some Hammerites contain zinc phosphate, calcium carboxylate and cobalt carboxylate, all of which are classified as hazardous chemicals. but unless you've painted large areas with the stuff I can't see there being so much of the stuff that it would cause health issues. TBH I'd be more inclined to look at your water supply (mains, pipes, brazed joints, water cisterns, etc); have any of your neighbours had similar illness? Is there a bug going round school? (kids are known to be unwitting conductors of all sorts of things) Do you have any pets? (another possible source)
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Re: Hammerite on dishwasher tray - toxic ??

Post by dand99 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:57 pm

I did look up the data sheet (https://images.clasohlson.com/medias/sy ... 451614.pdf) but I can't say I learned much I can use...

The question I'm trying to figure out is will toxic materials leach into hot water, and will the resulting amount left behind on drying dished be significant/ a health hazard. I'm sure it's not an easy question, but I have no idea where to begin....

Plumbing, neighbours, pets etc. I've ruled out - I was looking at food when I began thinking about the hammerite..
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Re: Hammerite on dishwasher tray - toxic ??

Post by Rorschach » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:42 pm

This time of year a very common illness, lots of it been going around as usual.
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Re: Hammerite on dishwasher tray - toxic ??

Post by Tom d'Angler » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:46 pm

One of the commonest reasons for upset stomachs is poor personal hygiene. Although it's not nice to hear, the cause is most likely to be someone in your family not washing their hands after using the toilet, or using good hygiene practices when handling raw meat and fish.

I know several people, not my immediate family, thank goodness, who don;t wash their hands after using the toilet and, not surprisingly, they are always ill.
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Re: Hammerite on dishwasher tray - toxic ??

Post by Rorschach » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:05 pm

Tom d'Angler wrote:One of the commonest reasons for upset stomachs is poor personal hygiene. Although it's not nice to hear, the cause is most likely to be someone in your family not washing their hands after using the toilet, or using good hygiene practices when handling raw meat and fish.

I know several people, not my immediate family, thank goodness, who don;t wash their hands after using the toilet and, not surprisingly, they are always ill.
Most likely the toilet, raw meat and fish will very rarely make you ill unless the meat was already bad. Even chicken is pretty harmless these days, I knew someone who ate it raw all the time.
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Re: Hammerite on dishwasher tray - toxic ??

Post by Tom d'Angler » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:10 pm

Most likely the toilet
I agree. What some people don't realise is faecal matter (I hope nobody is eating while reading this - hahaha!) can pass through several layers of toilet paper onto fingers (learned on an advanced hygiene course many years ago). Some people think they don't need to wash their hands because they think they didn't actually touch any... erm... faecal matter. Not only that, a lot of people don't use soap and even more people don't change the hand towel in the toilet / bathroom anywhere near often enough.
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Re: Hammerite on dishwasher tray - toxic ??

Post by big-all » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:13 pm

ok my thought
say you have 1 "unit"set in the paint
you may get perhaps 5% leach each cycle this will now be dilluted by perhaps 1000/1 by the water that would give you 1/20000th off a unit now iff we assume say perhaps 50% from the plate gets to your mouth thats now 1/40000th in your body
now iff we assume 30% gets into your blood stream thats now 1/1200000th
now if we assume 60% passes through the body without problem that leaves about 1/370000th off a unit
now in general at these levels unlikly to be the cause as people all act differently to poisons so more likely to be viral or bacterial
we are all ------------------still learning
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Re: Hammerite on dishwasher tray - toxic ??

Post by dynamod » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:15 pm

Faecal matter.

You don't get this info anywhere else folks. :lol: My mate Wullie cut pies with a putty knife, and hardly knows what a bar of soap is for.....and he's 89 and counting.

But I don't recommend his style. :mrgreen:
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Re: Hammerite on dishwasher tray - toxic ??

Post by wine~o » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:21 pm

dand99 wrote:
Plumbing, neighbours, pets etc. I've ruled out - I was looking at food when I began thinking about the hammerite..
Never had to do any maintenance on our dishwasher which is 8 years old ... and wouldn't go near it wit hammerite or any other paint product.

Are you still eating left over turkey from Christmas ? :lol:
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Re: Hammerite on dishwasher tray - toxic ??

Post by Job and Knock » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:27 pm

Tom d'Angler wrote:I agree. What some people don't realise is faecal matter (I hope nobody is eating while reading this - hahaha!) can pass through several layers of toilet paper onto fingers (learned on an advanced hygiene course many years ago). Some people think they don't need to wash their hands because they think they didn't actually touch any... erm... faecal matter.
And you didn't even get round to mentioning the infamous faecal flora fountain which "erupts" every time the WC is flushed and can spread "matter" for quite a distance. Nice!
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Re: Hammerite on dishwasher tray - toxic ??

Post by OchAye » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:16 pm

Tom d'Angler wrote:I agree. What some people don't realise is faecal matter (I hope nobody is eating while reading this - hahaha!)
I was eating a large Forfar bridie (McLarens) with some baked beans converted by the chef to curried/chillied beans.

If you want to go down the rout of cr@p contamination, then do not use solid soap (the liquid stuff in bottles instead), clean the tap handles etc.

The bridie was good though. I got 2 large and 2 small ones yesterday after a wee trip up North. Lunch, Dinner x2. And for the Southerners this is a bridie. A nice warm feeling now :-)
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Re: Hammerite on dishwasher tray - toxic ??

Post by Dave54 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:33 pm

OchAye wrote:
Tom d'Angler wrote:I agree. What some people don't realise is faecal matter (I hope nobody is eating while reading this - hahaha!)
I was eating a large Forfar bridie (McLarens) with some baked beans converted by the chef to curried/chillied beans.

If you want to go down the rout of cr@p contamination, then do not use solid soap (the liquid stuff in bottles instead), clean the tap handles etc.

The bridie was good though. I got 2 large and 2 small ones yesterday after a wee trip up North. Lunch, Dinner x2. And for the Southerners this is a bridie. A nice warm feeling now :-)
Looks good. I've never tried the "mice pies" on that page though! :shock: :-)
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Re: Hammerite on dishwasher tray - toxic ??

Post by OchAye » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:39 pm

Dave54 wrote:
OchAye wrote:
Tom d'Angler wrote:I agree. What some people don't realise is faecal matter (I hope nobody is eating while reading this - hahaha!)
I was eating a large Forfar bridie (McLarens) with some baked beans converted by the chef to curried/chillied beans.

If you want to go down the rout of cr@p contamination, then do not use solid soap (the liquid stuff in bottles instead), clean the tap handles etc.

The bridie was good though. I got 2 large and 2 small ones yesterday after a wee trip up North. Lunch, Dinner x2. And for the Southerners this is a bridie. A nice warm feeling now :-)
Looks good. I've never tried the "mice pies" on that page though! :shock: :-)
It is not the baker's page (just as well) but it was a good photo of the horseshoe shaped pies. Well, I have had fun picking the menu of two snottier restaurants I have been to, for having "chocolate mouse" and whatever else on the sweets menu.

I had no problems with the previous 3, so there will be nothing to report tomorrow ... apart from extra wind over the east coast of Scotland.
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Re: Hammerite on dishwasher tray - toxic ??

Post by Dave54 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:49 pm

Yes, pies and pastries are nice, but they do lead to an increase in emissions.
I had a very nice pasty yesterday. Proper job, but the same effect!
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