New central heating system - no gas

Lawrence252 · Post by **Lawrence252** » Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:20 pm

Hi all,

I’m looking for some advice that doesn’t come from someone who is trying to sell me something...

I have just moved into a 2 bed house, no central heating system installed and no mains gas to the property (I can get the gas line put in for £1000)

Currently I have electric storage heating and small water cylinder with immersion heater.

I am wondering if it is worth the additional expense of connecting gas supply and installing a new system throughout the house, when there are electrical companies saying gas prices will go up soon when the UK ban new gas installations in 5 years.

Would a more futureproof method be upgrading insulation and installing modern oil filled electric heaters throughout?

Obviously every professional I have spoken to claims that their equipment is most cost effective and future proof, but they can’t all be telling the truth as the opinions contradict each other.

Any help is appreciated

Thanks, Lawrence

dewaltdisney · Post by **dewaltdisney** » Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:26 pm

I can see your dilemma but gas would be best in my opinion. Is there a way you can help with digging the pipe trench on your land to reduce the cost?

DWD

Lawrence252 · Post by **Lawrence252** » Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:54 pm

Thanks for the reply! It will reduce the cost if I do the digging by £140, even after the line is installed I’d still have quite a substantial run needed to the only place where I have space for the boiler (maybe an additional 6 metres)

Cadent (the supply company) are only willing to run the line to the front of the building which doesn’t really help me.

I’m just not sure I will get my money’s worth out of the system (probably looking about 6k total) before restrictions start coming in for houses with gas heating in the next few years

big-all · Post by **big-all** » Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:00 pm

as a rough guide
take your annual energy costs take between 30-60% call it say 45%
so if your annual costs are say £1000 you save £450
--------------------------------------£2000------------£900
--------------------------------------£3000------------£1350
so perhaps 3-5 years payback with ongoing savings after that

Someone-Else · Post by **Someone-Else** » Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:57 pm

Does your neighbour have gas? if not ask then see if you can get both done at the same time and split the cost.

We were in a similar boat to you, and I am just saying...........
When gas is installed you will not be able to have a gas meter, until your heating etc is installed. I asked why. It's because the gas supply co (Transco didn't exist then) want to test what ever you are having installed to make sure it has no leaks. We were lucky as it was my late BIL who installed our boiler and as he worked for British gas he could say all was well. (No test certificates in them days)

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

As for changing the heaters to oil filled, you are missing / not understanding how they work.
Yes, oil filled rads are better, but...........

At a set time (at night) "economy 7" switches on and anything connected to it also switches on. This is usually your storage heaters. Inside a storage heater is rows and rows of bricks (No, not joking, its why they are so heavy) in between each layer of bricks is a heating element. The heating element heats the bricks while the "economy 7" is on. Then during the day when the "economy 7" is off the heaters let the stored heat out, heating the room the heater is in.

You have no control over when the "economy 7" comes on and off. So I would opt for the gas option if I were you.

"economy 7" Has a variety of names, so is probably not called that anymore, but how it works is still the same, despite its name.

Lawrence252 · Post by **Lawrence252** » Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:33 pm

Thanks for the info Someone-else, everyone has gas in the area, the people that lived here previously weren’t interested in change, hence the reason that nothing has been done since the house was new (late 50s)

I wouldn’t try and run the new oil filled heaters on the economy 7 circuit. The fuse box is also original and the house needs rewiring too, so a new dedicated circuit can be run just for new electrical heating.

I guess it’s a unique situation... at the moment the gas is the best option, even with the original cost and inconvenience, but I’m just worried I’ll end up in 5 years time just breaking even in savings, then new restrictions start coming in and I have to install a heat pump to the system.

Also I have been told that when the govt start phasing out gas overall the prices will increase to make it less appealing for customers.

I just want something that will last the entirety of my time in this house

camallison · Post by **camallison** » Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:54 pm

I may be wrong but I thought the supposed ban in 5 years time was for installing a new gas boiler. If you install it now, then when the ban comes in you are allowed to continue using it. I have had a new Intergas gas boiler installed only 4 months ago. Since it is an efficient unit, I am already making savings in fuel costs.

You should be able to go ahead with a gas installation.

Colin

PS, my boiler is over 6m from the point where gas enters the property. The cost of such a run isn't all that high.

Razor · Post by **Razor** » Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:59 pm

Your situation is only unique in that you have the ability to get mains gas. Lots of remote places don't have that luxury.

Electric heating costs around 4 times the running cost of gas at the moment. I'm all for smart controls, renewable technology but the truth is whilst it may save the environment it will cost more to run particularly in a property that doesn't have great insulation.

My advice is to get the gas installed and do as many insulation upgrades as you can afford. 6m of gas pipe internally really isn't very much

BTW the ban was originally supposed to come in from 2015 and it's been pushed back multiple times. It was 2023 last I heard so if it's been moved to 2025 now I wouldn't let it sway my decision too much

ericmark · Post by **ericmark** » Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:15 am

You have many options, oil, LPG, solid fuel, town gas, or electric. It would seem getting gas installed is the best, however I will explore the rest.

Electric three basic ways, heat pump, inferred or convection or combination, inferred hard to control and convection heaters no real advantage in heating as whole house unless some central storage used and off peak power, as to if we will continue to get off peak no one knows. So the heat pump seems best option, the problem is installation cost, once installed using some thing like the iVector fan assisted radiator it can both heat in winter and cool in summer, but need a mortgage for installation costs.

Solid fuel, my friend said only way it pays is theft, where you steal the fuel, think that was a little harsh, but I can see his point, to get an efficient burner eco friendly means it burns as a set rate, clearly we don't want a set rate of heat, so as part of the system looking at heat storage, so you can light a fire in the evening and excess is stored for next day, as with electric the installation costs need a mortgage.

The same with solar and wind, they can be added to the storage used with solid fuel, but installation costs are huge.

So looking at pay back time, and available space, I have seen a storage system and the main point it was installed when the house was built, two 60 gallon storage tanks are heavy, and you can't rely on pumps, last thing you want is to need to rake out fire with a power cut or water will boil, did see system with 12 volt pumps used on a narrow boat with one pump backing up the other and massive batteries, but in the main it means tanks up stairs so thermal syphon will ensure safe even with power cut.

Oil and LPG needs to have tanks and these are also expensive, likely more than installing town gas.

So where you have option for mains gas, seems that is best option. But there is a question still needing answering, combi or system?

The combi boiler need no water storage tank and for a small house always considered best option, however using a storage tank means you can have multi-fuel. Multi-fuel was normal with solid fuel, so if you didn't want to light a fire then you could turn on an immersion heater and use electric. The storage tank is reverse of standard traditional system, The DHW runs through a coil inside the tank, and all heating is with coils set at different heights, cost is high, but it means flexible.

Personally I would go for a combi boiler, as cheaper, but as said down to how much your willing to spend and what room you have.

ayjay · Post by **ayjay** » Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:25 am

camallison wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:54 pm I may be wrong but I thought the supposed ban in 5 years time was for installing a new gas boiler.
Colin

It's only for New Build houses. You'll still be able to fit a new gas boiler into an existing property after 2025.

dewaltdisney · Post by **dewaltdisney** » Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:28 am

Just a further point Lawrence, the 6 meter run from the meter to your boiler does not have to be below ground and it can be run in 22mm copper either internally to externally. So focus on the dig to the house, even at £1000 I feel it is the best option.

DWD

Lawrence252 · Post by **Lawrence252** » Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:58 pm

Thanks for all the advice guys, went for a gas combo boiler and ended up fitting boiler in the loft (so the run through the house wasn’t needed)

All in and working now, house is nice and warm (finally)

Thanks again

Lawrence

big-all · Post by **big-all** » Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:47 pm

excellent glad you got it sorted

thanks for letting us know it makes it all worth it