Replace MR16 down lights with LED unit

Kabous · Post by **Kabous** » Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:50 pm

Dear All

MR16s (5 fittings) in kitchen using 50w halogens at the moments.

I have replaced most of the individual transformers and am now having to replace the replacements.

There are 3 members of the other species in the house and the kitchen lights (5x50w) are often left on. Time to replace the 12V MR16 with a LED system.

I don't want to cut bigger holes in the ceiling if possible and the other one would certainly want a dimmable function.

Will anyone suggest a suitable LED unit as a replacement.
Something that is not a faf to replace the current.

Your comments and advice,as always, are appreciated.

Someone-Else · Post by **Someone-Else** » Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:18 pm

There are so many varieties and colour options it is your choice. I would suggest you get units with replaceable lamps. (Not all have this)

All are easy to change. (So long as no one painted round the existing ones, in which case you will need a knife)

ericmark · Post by **ericmark** » Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:56 pm

The quartz lamp was not dimmable, we at least it should not be dimmed, so there are three units which drop 230 volt to 12 volt, the toroidal transformer has a large inrush so not good for dimming, the electronic transformer is designed to maintain the voltage output what ever the input, however some will dim, but to get zero to 50 watt rather than 20 to 50 watt and dim may not be easy, same applies to DC version whole idea it to maintain voltage, again there are some which can dim.

Even with 230 volt not so easy, you can get dimmable, but to be sure it will work you need a neutral at the switch, there are versions that will work without a neutral, but then you need the bulb and dimmer to match.

So first question does it need to be extra low voltage, or where installed can you use low voltage, for low voltage you need an earth to the lamp even if not used, is there a neutral at the switch? is the back box deep enough, I have had the flash when turned off, had to fit a load capacitor and shimmer I had to swap makes until found one that worked, it was a real pain.

I am told Magaman work well but not tried them. But most electronic switches say over 5 watt, I wanted switches with remote controls not dimmer, but it was a real problem.

Kabous · Post by **Kabous** » Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:19 am

Thanks for the thoughts so far.

I actually want to remove the 12v system and replace with 230v.

Someone-Else · Post by **Someone-Else** » Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:54 am

I figured you did, still same answer.
There are lots of downlighters which come complete with lamp, but that means when the lamp fails you have to buy a complete fitting, which is why I said

someone-else wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:18 pmI would suggest you get units with replaceable lamps. (Not all have this)

There are some downlights that have interchangeable bezels (The bit you see on the ceiling around the light) most don't but it's your choice.
Then you have lamp colour temperature, do you want warm white, or cool white (Yellow ish or blue ish) again it's your choice.
Then there is wattage, again your choice.

So, as I previously said it really is your choice depending on what you do or do not like, I suggest you have GU10 fittings as no transformer / power supply required.

Bob225 · Post by **Bob225** » Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:04 am

GU10 is the same size as MR16, you can get fittings with GU10 leds, you can also get complete led units the downside to these is if 1 fails you have to replace the whole unit assuming they are still available at that time

Aurora makes some nice fittings but they can get pricey

Someone-Else · Post by **Someone-Else** » Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:07 pm

Just saying..................what I like you may not, which is why it is up to you which you have.

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ericmark · Post by **ericmark** » Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:53 pm

Bob225 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:04 am GU10 is the same size as MR16, you can get fittings with GU10 leds, you can also get complete led units the downside to these is if 1 fails you have to replace the whole unit assuming they are still available at that time

Aurora makes some nice fittings but they can get pricey

GU10 is a MR16 in most cases, GU10 is the electrical connection, MR16 stands for multifaceted reflector 16/8th of an inch across, so you can get MR16 with SES base if you want. G5.3 is the typical 12 volt connection. The problem with changing is the earth, since 1966 all low voltage (230 volt) lights must have an earth provided even if not used. "411.3.1.1" "A circuit protective conductor shall be run to and terminated at each point in wiring and at each accessory except a lamp holder having no exposed-conductive-parts and suspended from such a point." So from ceiling rose to lamp holder no need for earth wire, but even if not connected you need to run an earth wire to the fitting. This is the problem bit as often the 12 volt (extra low voltage) lamps don't have an earth so you have to replace the cables.

However the main problem I find is 50 watt quartz is between 500 and 700 lumen, that is between 7 and 10 watts LED often to get such a high power you find the light output part is a lot less than 2 inches as it has cooling fins, so for a GU10 around 3.5 watt and double the number is required.

Nos · Post by **Nos** » Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:31 am

In the new house I specified all LED downlighter's I got them from the UK they are "Aurora hybrid" as said the unit stays in place you just take out the old LED, they are fire rated and dimmable, they suggest certain make's of dimmer switch, they have been in use now for six months and are very pleased with them, which is more than I can say for the rest of the house

.

Kabous · Post by **Kabous** » Sun Aug 02, 2020 4:46 pm

New build house, Nos?

Been looking at the Aurora Enlite range, but can't find the cabling for it. Waiting for replies from traders.
Will look at yours too. Thanks.

Someone-Else · Post by **Someone-Else** » Sun Aug 02, 2020 5:05 pm

Kabous wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 4:46 pm can't find the cabling for it.

Could you expand on that? The fittings are designed to use the existing cabling. (That which is in your ceiling) But you may have to extend it as you had transformers, may be easier to re-wire as you have to have an earth by each fitting.

Kabous · Post by **Kabous** » Sun Aug 02, 2020 5:20 pm

As the LED units are essentially plug and play I would need to rewire with the correct connections. And also include the earth wire.
So it's major surgery to replace but need to be done.

Someone-Else · Post by **Someone-Else** » Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:59 pm

Why "major surgery"? since you will be removing the old cables, why not afix a new cable so as you pull the old one out, you pull the new one in.

ericmark · Post by **ericmark** » Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:08 pm

My son and I don't agree about 2" ceiling lights, I think they are silly, he loves them, and I have not stopped him ripping out the 5 foot strip lights in my old house kitchen and replacing with loads of 2" spots.

It is a personal preference, and since he is buying my old house, although still technically mine, I have allowed him to do as he wants. I think it looks like a planetarium I suggested he arrange them in the pattern of the great bear.

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some people decorate there kitchens odd.

Nos · Post by **Nos** » Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:24 am

ericmark wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:08 pm My son and I don't agree about 2" ceiling lights, I think they are silly, he loves them, and I have not stopped him ripping out the 5 foot strip lights in my old house kitchen and replacing with loads of 2" spots.

It is a personal preference, and since he is buying my old house, although still technically mine, I have allowed him to do as he wants. I think it looks like a planetarium I suggested he arrange them in the pattern of the great bear. 98361719_10158572386853420_1054327038518755328_o.jpg some people decorate there kitchens odd.

Is that a new type of extractor fan? :dunno: