Page 2 of 3

Faulty timer?

Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:35 pm
by Grendel
I would think most have come across something that works even if it seems wrong and by that i don't just mean electrical. If it does have the wrong set up i'm absolutely buggered if i can see what is wrong .
Thanks all for taking the time to answer.

Faulty timer?

Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:49 pm
by arco_iris
someone-else wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:15 pm
What happens if you take one of the lamps out and try a "Normal" incandescent lamp? (even if you have to put one on a lamp holder and flex)
LED lamps are more often than not, polarity dependent - unlike incandescents which work either way.

Check the wiring, and/or the way the bulb(s) are fitted in their holders.

Faulty timer?

Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:22 pm
by Grendel
Screw in bulbs and all connected correctly .

Faulty timer?

Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:22 pm
by someone-else
arco_iris, sorry to rain on your parade, but mains LED lamps don't care which way they are installed since they will work either way round, and they are running on A.C.

Faulty timer?

Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:28 pm
by someone-else
I am looking even more at the fact the "problem" is the LED lamps, since it is an electronic timer not a mechanical one it will require a "neutral" but as it has no terminal for one it must draw it through the lamps, but it can't if they are LED lamps, since led lamps have rectifiers and maybe a capacitive dropper which will not allow current to "backflow"
was it not said that the other timer would not work at first? I bet some one has put either a "dummy load" some where or a normal lamp.

Try the new timer with a 60w normal lamp and see what happens

Faulty timer?

Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:54 am
by ericmark
someone-else wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:28 pm
I am looking even more at the fact the "problem" is the LED lamps, since it is an electronic timer not a mechanical one it will require a "neutral" but as it has no terminal for one it must draw it through the lamps, but it can't if they are LED lamps, since led lamps have rectifiers and maybe a capacitive dropper which will not allow current to "backflow"
was it not said that the other timer would not work at first? I bet some one has put either a "dummy load" some where or a normal lamp.

Try the new timer with a 60w normal lamp and see what happens
I was thinking on similar lines, once internal battery is charged, likely enough flow through LED lamps to maintain it, but not enough for initial charge, since it was some thing she had in stock, could be NiCad and could have crystal growth in the battery so it would never charge.

Faulty timer?

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:06 am
by Grendel
Ok a bit of an update.
I went round yesterday and spoke to her husband who said that when i first put in the timer switch and left it to charge there was a very faint glow from the bulbs at night. This gave me confidence that the comments on here about the bulbs were correct so i brought the switch home to give it another try. Wired it to a bulb holder with a 60W incadescent . Very simple set up , plug , switch and holder and tested without the switch where everything worked , wired correctly ( not difficult with only two wires) and tested . And ... Nothing. No lit bulb , no display or indicator light and it has remained like that overnight. Set to manual , i've now set it to auto and will check it when i get back home later but i'm not holding my breath .

Faulty timer?

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:28 pm
by Grendel
Another update and this time a happier one. Got home yesterday and it still looked as if nothing was happening with my little setup . Getting just about fecked off with it all i pressed in the reset button with a pencil and the bulb flashed on briefly and the red indicator started flashing. Left it untill this morning and i could set the time and turn the light on and off with the switch. It's now fitted to the barn and the customer has set the timer so fingers crossed.
Once again a big thanks to thanks to those who offered help. Seems it was a bulb issue after all.

Faulty timer?

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:13 pm
by someone-else
I hate to say this but since it has been proven that the timer is powered/charged because of an incandescent lamp, how long will the battery last since it is no longer being charged as there is no longer an incandescent lamp

Faulty timer?

Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:07 am
by Grendel
No need to have to hate to say that SE , it has crossed my mind too . The same switch on the stable has been there a year or two as far as i know and is still working as it should . It's made me wonder that if the battery drains would simply swapping bulbs solve that problem ? To be honest it has made me think firstly how long will the battery last in normal use and why in this day and age a switch is made that specfically precludes the use of low energy bulbs.

Faulty timer?

Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:16 am
by Dave54
Grendel wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:07 am
No need to have to hate to say that SE , it has crossed my mind too . The same switch on the stable has been there a year or two as far as i know and is still working as it should . It's made me wonder that if the battery drains would simply swapping bulbs solve that problem ? To be honest it has made me think firstly how long will the battery last in normal use and why in this day and age a switch is made that specfically precludes the use of low energy bulbs.
I wondered why they're available as well. Legacy thing I suspect. Probably been making them since before the days of low energy bulbs.
Any road up, now they know what's wrong, they know what the cure is. :thumbright:

Faulty timer?

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:10 am
by Grendel
Thankfully my customer texted yesterday to say they are all working as they should which is good . Bit of a frustrating job if i'm honest.

Faulty timer?

Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:04 am
by ericmark
I think the LED lamp is a problem, as we don't know what is inside the bulb or tube, it could be a simple capacitor limiting current and the rectifier may be full or half wave, or it could have a full blown switch mode power supply.

I have looked at the 12 volt MR16 replacement (not a MR16 as no reflector on LED version) but printed on the bulb it states 50 Hz, I will guess to rule out so called electronic transformers but guessing is not good enough. So reading side of bulb can't use a DC supply, I don't for one minute think there would be a problem with DC supply, but bulb says 50 Hz, but nothing on the avert or packaging to say 50 Hz.

Onto mains units, had one for outside light marked 85 - 250 volt, clearly switched mode type dropper, so would not dim with reduced voltage, but as to if it would flash with an electronic switch I don't know. The fluorescent tube replacement said 230 volt, however instructions say the wire wound ballast can be left in place, so if that is done would guess well below 230 volt, in fact removing the ballast may have been a problem, as that is the only LED I have had fail.

We have two clues when buying a bulb, one is some say dimmable and other some have a voltage range. However I went to buy 8 x E14 bulbs for my living room, went into Homebargains there were two lamps one 5 watt and one 5.5 watt the latter would dim, both had same lumen output, and the 5 watt was cheaper, both same make. I bought the cheaper version.

But where electronic switches are used, simply replacing bulbs, could cause problems, yes a small interference suppressor across the bulb may stop the problem, but should we need to fiddle like that? Some bulbs include a leak off, others don't but nothing on the packet to say which is which.

I have a cupboard full of bulbs, some tungsten, some folded fluorescent, and some LED where they were not bright enough or too bright, in the old days the stock would soon go, but today I see no sign of it going down as LED's last so long.

Faulty timer?

Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:40 pm
by Grendel
Ok another update. I went over to the customer to do an unrelated job and she said that tbey'd had to change the bulbs. Evidently the timer stopped working so they swapped the bulbs and within an hour it was all back to running properly . I did question about the other timer on the stables and that , either confusingly or irritatingly , has been working for around six months after the initial problems . Only different is that has just two led bulbs as opposed to three on the one i put in , other than that it's exactly the same set up.

Faulty timer?

Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:43 pm
by Dave54
Be interesting to try the LED bulbs from the one setup in the other.
It's either the LED bulbs or the timers that are slightly different.
Or both!