Faulty timer?

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:24 am

I've just replaced some outdoor lights for a customer and she supplied everything except for a short run of cable. She already has some other lights on the stable that are on a timer (and also on a different circuit) . The timer switch she supplied was a seven day one from BG . This one,
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BG-Nexus-TWE ... ect=mobile
This is the same switch on the stables. Hopefully someone here knows this switch but it has three connections on the back . A live feed and a load and the third is for wiring it up in a two way system which in this case was not needed. When wired up the load was live no matter how the switch was set. She did say they had a problem with the switch on the stables intially and it does say that there is an internal battery that may need up to two hours to charge before the timer will work . It was left for a lot longer than that but still no joy and in my eyes the load being permantly live means an internal fault in the switch ( brand new as well straight out of the packet) . I"'ve replaced it with a bog standard one way switch so its all working but would be happy if anyone could either confirm a faulty switch or even to point out just what i was doing wrong because it was absolutely baffling me at one point.

Someone-Else · Post by **Someone-Else** » Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:13 pm

I hate things a customer supplies and you know nothing about it, its probably working as it should because you haven't pressed the "secret button that initiates it."
What exactly do the instructions say?

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:18 pm

Followed the instructions /wiring diagram and i also unscrewed the other switch to check i'd got it right .i did notice that on the original switch the load connection was only live when the front switch was in the on position. Should also say the little red indicator light on the new switch never lit up.

Someone-Else · Post by **Someone-Else** » Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:28 pm

If you are 100% sure, then you have no choice, tell the customer to send it back and get another one, or you supply a timer.

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:43 pm

99% . There's just that little doubt although i can't for the life of me see what else could be wrong. As it is she's happy with a simple on/off switch and did say she'd brought the switch some time ago and was doubtful if it would be worth sending it back.

Dave54 · Post by **Dave54** » Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:20 pm

Instructions here
https://www.sparksdirect.co.uk/download ... manual.pdf
Is it set to "auto" or "manual"?
I hate these electronic timer things. Be OK if they were all the same.

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:42 pm

We tried it set both ways with no difference . Customer had downloaded those instructions after i had intially fitted the switch in case there was something i'd missed and while we were letting it charge. It had two days to charge so plenty of time. Forgot to say i also checked the fuse was ok .

Dave54 · Post by **Dave54** » Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:56 pm

I meant to mention the fuse and forgot!
You are using "normal" incandescent lamps as the load?
Wiring looks simple enough, as long as you're sure which wire's which.
Sometimes things are just duff out of the box.

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:01 pm

I run a new feed in and that 's powering the lights now via the conventional switch so no problem there , also all wires are surface mounted so easy to follow . It,'s a barn.. I did notice the bit about only using incandescent bulbs and mentioned it to the customer. She had got leds and to be fair that was the same setup already working on the stables. Three lamps to be exact. I did open one up and it was showing live because as i said the load connection seemed to remain live no matter what i did even with only a live feed connected. That 's what was leading me to believe the switch was faulty itself. Frustrating really as one starts to question oneself.

Someone-Else · Post by **Someone-Else** » Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:15 pm

What happens if you take one of the lamps out and try a "Normal" incandescent lamp? (even if you have to put one on a lamp holder and flex)

Dave54 · Post by **Dave54** » Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:18 pm

It's clear enough that it's only for tungsten bulbs.
Without knowing a lot more about what's in the timer and the bulbs used, it's difficult to say, but I'll guess that it gets it's "neutral" though the bulb, which in the case of a tungsten, will just be seen as a resistor by the timer unit.
If anything else works it's by accident. Electronics are funny in that there is a set of characteristics which components have, and they all differ slightly. Something that "just" works with one unit may not work with another.
I'd try tungsten bulbs to see if it's the unit.
If you look under the first review in the link you gave there's a bit there.

ericmark · Post by **ericmark** » Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:34 pm

Clearly only a guess but here goes. The battery will likely be discharged and could if been in stock for an extended time be faulty, and may never charge up, there will be a difference between fitting LED bulbs in a unit where the battery is already charged and one where the battery needs charging, only real way to test is connect to tungsten lamp for some time and see if it starts to work, the odd bit of the instructions was "To charge the unit must be connected to the mains power supply – and the switch turned ON (under load conditions)." I would have expected it not to matter if on or off? So seems must be left with a 40 to 400 watt tungsten bulb for at least 2 hours to prove unit faulty. I am sure you could connect it to a table lamp or some thing as a test.

Once battery charged it may will work with LED. I have just swapped a bulb in wife's bedside lamp, it was tungsten, tried LED, worked but would not dim, so reverted to tungsten and now that will not dim either, as to if bulb blowing damaged the unit, or fitting LED I don't know, but now left with LED fitted.

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:38 pm

Hmm . When i was having trouble i rigged it up as a two way circuit . Essentially connecting the load and two way connection as per the wiring diagrams . This gave me powerto the bulbs although they seemed not verybright to say the least. Wired through a standard switch they are bright . I think that's one of the things that is giving me a doubt , on one hand it looked like a bulb problem but then when i was getting nothing from the indicator light and nothing showing on the display i just wasn't sure...

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:42 pm

Ericmark , that might be a good idea to rig it up on the bench so to speak if only to give it a try. The switch on the stable is the exact same and runs leds .

Dave54 · Post by **Dave54** » Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:03 pm

As I said earlier, I wouldn't take it for granted that just because one "wrong" setup works that another automatically will.
Too many variables, and I've seen similar happen a number of times.