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Remove double socket

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:46 am
by colin_dickson
Hi

I’ve recently took out a stud wall and in it was s double plug socket, which I connected up using a junction box to remove the switch (2 lots of wires).

My question is; can I spur off that to create a new double socket and does it have to be 2 wires or one? Or could I crest 2 new double sockets?

Thanks

Re: Remove double socket

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:58 am
by someone-else
The idea of two cables is to make a ring, one in and one out if you like.

So if you want to add two more double sockets you should (easy explanation)
Take one of the two cables to each new socket. (so you use both cables)
Then you run a new cable from one of the new sockets, to the other new socket.
So that each socket has two cables.

This way the new sockets are not spurs, but part of the ring.

You may have to extend either or both or one of the cables to do this, in which case its best to use wago connectors, not a junction box

Re: Remove double socket

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:24 am
by colin_dickson
Brilliant, thank you!

Do they need to be extended by wago’s or can I use connector blocks (chick blocks)?

Re: Remove double socket

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:31 am
by OnlyMe
You can use choc blocks if they are in a suitable enclosure and accessible.

However these are far better

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/ASJ803.html

Re: Remove double socket

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:33 am
by OnlyMe
someone-else wrote:The idea of two cables is to make a ring, one in and one out if you like.

So if you want to add two more double sockets you should (easy explanation)
Take one of the two cables to each new socket. (so you use both cables)
Then you run a new cable from one of the new sockets, to the other new socket.
So that each socket has two cables.

This way the new sockets are not spurs, but part of the ring.

You may have to extend either or both or one of the cables to do this, in which case its best to use wago connectors, not a junction box
Now what if the circuit is a radial or that bedroom socket is a spur from a ring feeding a spur!

Re: Remove double socket

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:08 am
by someone-else
OnlyMe wrote:Now what if the circuit is a radial or that bedroom socket is a spur from a ring feeding a spur!
But you know as well as I do that, chances are its a ring, and short of the OP tracing / metering the cables (Like that is going to happen) we will never know.

[Light hearted, but true] What would you suggested I have said? I could't really say, "sorry, but we need to know is it a ring, spur or radial, so you will have to trace the cables to find out, before I can make a suggestion, and by the way you need to test everything before you re energise it" [/Light hearted, but true]

Re: Remove double socket

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:47 am
by OnlyMe
I would expect anyone doing basic stuff such as adding new sockets to do a continuity check on the ring. If they cannot do that then they should not be doing the work. And I do not mean go out and buy an expensive tester, this simple test could be done with a cheap multimeter.

So a simple LL NN EE ohms reading to show that it is a ring and look out for open circuits or high resistance values.

Re: Remove double socket

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:52 pm
by someone-else
I agree with your sentiment, but its not going to happen. Look how many times I have asked / said (not to you) have you a multi meter? and they don't even know what one is, let alone have one.
You are right they should not being doing the job..............

Re: Remove double socket

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:35 pm
by OnlyMe
someone-else wrote:I agree with your sentiment, but its not going to happen. Look how many times I have asked / said (not to you) have you a multi meter? and they don't even know what one is, let alone have one.
You are right they should not being doing the job..............
Well you can always read em's bs.

Re: Remove double socket

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:50 am
by colin_dickson
Ok... so I have one of these: https://www.screwfix.com/p/lap-mas830b- ... 600v/75337

What are the basics tests I need to carry out and look out for?

I do have an electrician that’s going to do any final checks!

Re: Remove double socket

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:07 pm
by wine~o
colin_dickson wrote:Ok... so I have one of these: https://www.screwfix.com/p/lap-mas830b- ... 600v/75337

What are the basics tests I need to carry out and look out for?

I do have an electrician that’s going to do any final checks!

Lecky off set your meter to lowest resistance range, check live to live /neutral to neutral at the socket you have removed (cores separated.)

Should be minimal resistance if it's a ring, infinite resistance if it's a radial or spur.

Re: Remove double socket

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:54 pm
by OnlyMe
wine~o wrote:
colin_dickson wrote:Ok... so I have one of these: https://www.screwfix.com/p/lap-mas830b- ... 600v/75337

What are the basics tests I need to carry out and look out for?

I do have an electrician that’s going to do any final checks!

Lecky off set your meter to lowest resistance range, check live to live /neutral to neutral at the socket you have removed (cores separated.)

Should be minimal resistance if it's a ring, infinite resistance if it's a radial or spur.
And earth to earth! Although some twit has probably twisted those two together :mrgreen:

Re: Remove double socket

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:12 pm
by Kev888
The test isn't a big job to do, and has saved me cocking up in the past. I knew there was a ring, but the particular socket I opened was actually a spur, with another spur (naughtily) taken off it - making it look like the ring. Testing found that, but otherwise I could have added yet another spur, then totalling 3x double sockets hung off one 2.5mm spur..