Is it the end for 110v

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Rorschach
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Is it the end for 110v

Post by Rorschach »

I reckon they are just fudging the numbers to make it sound better. :lol:
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Is it the end for 110v

Post by Job and Knock »

big-all wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:49 pm
in theory iff they can manage 900w at 18v you would think they could manage 2700w at 54v so a compromise at perhaps 18-2000w and 5ah at 54v would give 54x5x 60 mins = about 16000w so would last about 8.5 mins at full power and perhaps 30 mins over an average cycle
Nice theory, pity about the ridiculously short run duration which is nowhere near long enough for any volume of sustained routing,
big-all wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:49 pm
i can see them developing a duel battery body holster like makita to give 110v capacity to hand held via a short cord for tools like routers
It's been done in the past by both Makita and Hilti. Both subsequently dropped the idea. I wonder why? (other than the packs were heavy and awkward to use, especially if you are working up a scaffolding tower or in a harness) Maybe it was because the whole point of a cordless tool is that it is, well, cordless - and I just can't see a large enough battery pack (say 30Ah @ 36 volt) being mounted on an already large and heavy tool (such as a powerful 1/2in router) without passing the point where you'd need greater muscles than Garth to use it, not to mention carrying it to and from jobs. 930 watts is nowhere near enough for heavy tasks.

That's the whole point of cordless tools - they are light and portable and free you from the need for 110 volt power - anything which is overly heavy or bulky or requires an umbilical cable will simply fail to deliver
big-all wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:49 pm
i really really wished dewalt would bring the powerstation they do in 230v rather than just 110v as i have 48ah off batteries
But why would they ever do that? It's a minutely small market already for a high priced tool aimed at tradesmen - who if they work on site are required to use 110 volt, NOT 230 volt - and for minimal gain in performance, so just who is going to buy this? TBH I now work with several guys who have gone down the Flexvolt/cordless mitre saw path and even they can't see the point of going to this sort of technology until/unless batteries get a lot more powerful (i.e. power AND durability increase radically). Based on the current rate of change in the battery field that may be 7 to 10 years in the future, or more

BTW, B-A, I'm already at the point where 80% of my work is done using cordless tools, however, I am working on a heavy first fix job (yet another listed refurb/repurpose) where 110 volt heavy first fix tools are a must because the battery stuff is too light, too gutless and just not fit for purpose (we've had several guys burn out cordless drills drilling beams and joists,etc)
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Is it the end for 110v

Post by big-all »

weight wise the the 18v duel base with a 5ah battery is surprizingly about 150-250g LIGHTER than the 230v one with centre off balance about 20mm higher so quite good
it was more the ease off operation with reduced weight and lower centre off gravity without battery strapped on top hence the battery pack and cable suggestion for a say 1800w machine
as you know you start throwing the centre off gravity all over the place it effects the accuracy as we get use to the amount off pressure required with a tool for a specific operation so keeping it standard reduces fatigue and inaccuracies
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Is it the end for 110v

Post by Job and Knock »

big-all wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:21 pm
it was more the ease off operation with reduced weight and lower centre off gravity without battery strapped on top hence the battery pack and cable suggestion for a say 1800w machine
But that's one of the reasons it won't work - you are assuming that site workers will be happy to swap a corded tool for a cordless with an umbilical and a bulky battery pack in order to achieve sufficient run time )how long does it take you to rout both sides of a laminate kitchen worktop joint, for example?). In view of the fact that a router used on site has to be connected to a vacuum (yet more batteries) and that requires a hose you would be getting away from having a 110 volt lead only to replace it with an umbilical cord and also loading down the operative with a bulky battery pack. Yeah, thatr's a sure fire winner. All this would require a massive extra investment in batteries, chargers and new kit plus many more trips to the charger station every day. So just where is the advantage to this at the present time? Sorry, but to my mind this does not compute! And 930 watts still isn't a big enough router. Nowhere near.

You probably aren't aware of just how much time and effort goes into bringing kit onto even a medium sized site, dragging it to the point where it will be used and setting it up (and then doing the reverse at end of day). That's why I've found guys doing this sort of work to be wary about large, heavy, battery-hungry kit. Try working where you need to make say a 6 (Victorian) storey journey down to the charger station 3 or 4 times a day and you soon start to understand where some of the limitations to cordless tools lie
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Is it the end for 110v

Post by big-all »

yes your correct i have no experience off site only ever domestic :lol:
not in the least trying to argue with anything you said as you are at least 100 times more familiar with hard work than i am :thumbleft:
its more looking for a possible solution with a reasonable chance off working
to be fair my battery tools spend 90% off the time at perhaps 10% off designed max load about 5% at 50% plus and never more than 80% designed load as i have a choice and a next step up to go to
i do realise site is a different ball game where time is money
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Is it the end for 110v

Post by Rorschach »

All depends on the type of work you do I guess and how long you are going to be working in a specific area. There is no one size fits all.
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Is it the end for 110v

Post by Grendel »

Interesting conversation. I'll admit i haven't worked on what may be termed a "proper" building site since 2012 alrhough i do still come into contact with others via a couple of building developers i work for. Back when i was employed by a firm , prior to 2011 i'd say the majority of the gear was 110v . Cordless drills were common , pretty much each chippy was issued one and there were a couple of cordless jigsaws that could be gotten out of the stores but precious little else. The firm after that i was only there briefly and it was expected we should provide our own which i resisted as much as possible but again 110v was far more prevalent.
Fast forward to today and i tend to find myself working with plasterers and plumbers more than other joiners so can't really comment on woodworking from a wide perspective. The plasterers still tend to use 110v mixers and drywall guns although i have seen the cordless drywalls. Plumbers seem to be mostly drills and that seems to be cordless for most of the small work and 110v for the core drilling and the like.
Personally as most of my work is domestic i tend to use 240v more than anything else. As i had some 110v tools stolen i made the conscience decision to move to 240v as i didn't see myself working on sites. As it is i don't see 240v disappearing any time soon. The diy market has seen some cordless inroads but for most the power and longevity of corded tools are a better bet. We all know someone with a 40+ year old black and decker drill that still drills hole just as good as any modern fancy cordless which won't be around in a decade let alone four. I know i've still got three in my workshop that are used regulary . Then there's the worry some have about the availability of batteries in the future for tools they buy now. I have a couple of cordless tools without batteries that i connect to a car battery but i doubt many would do that. And then lastly there is the cost. Only yesterday a friend was saying about buying a couple of cheap.angle grinders simp!y because of how cheap they are.
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