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 Post subject: Re: Undervalued trade
PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:40 pm 
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It annoys you though that kitchen fitters charge £1k for 2 days work while gas engineers charge that for fitting a combo boiler for 2 days. The plasterer charges £300 to skim a room but if I turn up asking for £125 a day it’s frowned upon.


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 Post subject: Re: Undervalued trade
PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:51 pm 
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jedeye wrote:
It annoys you though that kitchen fitters charge £1k for 2 days work while gas engineers charge that for fitting a combo boiler for 2 days. The plasterer charges £300 to skim a room but if I turn up asking for £125 a day it’s frowned upon.


I don't know any kitchen fitters that charge £ 500 a day.. :? :shock:

RGI's charging that amount will be 2 guys x 2 days plus materials.

The plasterer I have employed is £150 a day plus materials buuutttt leaves a much better finish than the £120 a day guys.


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if I turn up asking for £125 a day it’s frowned upon.
You never tell the customer how much per day. you quote . "inc. all materials"

If the customer is supplying materials then add 20% to the labour as they will prolly buy wilkos own brand emulsion... or worse.

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 Post subject: Re: Undervalued trade
PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:17 pm 
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steviejoiner74 wrote:
Why should a plumber or sparky be paid more than a decorator tho? It’s a skilled trade and my way of thinking is all trades should be on roughly the same money.

I agree totally.
I am not trained in any way, cover several trades but do a job that I am proud of most of the time...
I also charge more than many, but am so lucky as I have some good clients who appreciate that it's not all about getting the cheapest price. It took me many years to feel that my 'skills' were actually something that not anyone can do, and I'm no expert in anything !
The same job can be done for £50 or £500, and one will take ten times as long as the other. It's all about buying time and skills, and if I feel appreciated by a client I will actually go the extra mile, and as a result, most of my clients are now friends.

I have also spent a lot of the last 25 years off work having operations or recovering from them, and a decent weeks income doesn't cover a bad month or 6..
Being self employed is not an easy way to earn good money - it can be great, but it can also be pretty pants at times. I know. Not sure I'd change it, so maybe I still need to learn a lesson or two..!



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 Post subject: Re: Undervalued trade
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:24 am 
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It's a three pronged issue to my mind.

    1. Public perception has been skewed by countless DIY shows, sheds punting DIY products, one-coat products giving the lie to needing any decent preparation. Just use this 'magic' product and save on decorating bills blah, blah.

    2. Because the paying public can see what is getting done, they (IMO at least) don't perhaps understand the learning process and skill-set behind the end result. 'It's just pasting paper and sticking it on a wall', is one I've heard more than once. No, there's a bit more to it than that. The public have no real perception of the value of correct products and more importantly, preparation.

    3. A raft of crap tradesmen passing themselves off as decorators! Also, we all know more than one person who 'does decorating', normally at a knockdown price, but the more worrying issue is the glut of painters who frankly wasted their time as opposed to having served it. Often the standards held in this industry are quite poor. How often have you/I went behind someone charging good money and heard a client saying "I could have done a better job myself". This is not good for the trade and leads to 1 above.


1 and 2 are symptoms of society and environment I feel, but 3 is far more systemic and damaging. The standard of work in this trade, and the attitude lying behind it, often leave a lot to be desired. It's not universal by any means, but I've lost count of the men I've ran into over the years tarred with that one brush. Oddly, female decorators are normally far more professional.

I touched on this on my Apprentices thread/rant earlier in the week. If there are no committed, truly skilled and willing journeymen to train, and not just just train the theory and mechanics of this trade to youngsters, but instill a sense of pride, professionalism and the ability to hold themselves (unsupervised) to a strong, high standard, then this internal erosion of the skill-set will only get worse.

The relevance of all this is that the public aren't stupid and see a lot of what is happening. The decorating trade has needed, for many years IMO, to weed out the rubbish and pull itself up by its own bootstraps, and to adopt a far more professional attitude to what it does as an industry, from top to bottom. It's not about clean overalls either. That's just front. This goes much deeper and needs fixed before this trade ends up being perceived as semi-skilled.

Sorry, but I feel very strongly about a lot of this stuff. :salute:

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 Post subject: Re: Undervalued trade
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:36 pm 
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jedeye wrote:
Does any other decorators just feel like your the most undervalued trade out of them all. Clients happily paying plumbers, sparks, joiners and plasterers whatever they want but as soon as the painter turns up they try and scrimp and save and question prices like our time is worth any less than someone else’s. I understand plumbers and electricians are paid more but some folk expect you to turn up and think because anyone can have a go at painting you will work for next to nothing. Noticed it a couple of times lately and winds me up.


I comprehend that which you are stating but am bemused that you haven't worked it out!

It is an indoctrinated fear within the sub-conscious mind of 'humans' which allows the supposed individual to consider your trade of a 'lesser' value.

In other words,

IF a plumber does a crap job....you may have a house full of water.
IF a chippy does a crap job....you may have parts of your home falling down.
IF a brickie does a crap job....you may have your home fall down.
IF a sparky does a crap job....you may die.

etc....but if a decorator does a crap job....well it is just a crap job.

This is the way 'humans' think and why they will attempt to paint and wallpaper but NOT other trades.

It is fear and they have less fear of mucking up painting.

Btw....I value your trade highly and find it to be very skilled.

:-)



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 Post subject: Re: Undervalued trade
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:35 pm 
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Don't know what it is. The painter and decorator I have used is also a taper and filler, can command at least double for taping as can for painting seems strange, still same guy who had to serve his time at both. ex brother in law was time served he never could make it work on the books but off the books he could be working all year.


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 Post subject: Re: Undervalued trade
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:28 pm 
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I've just seen a post on Facebook which went along the lines of - "can anyone recommend a plumber that won't rip me off?"

Roughly translated this means that they are looking for the cheapest possible job because they can't afford the going rate, or don't want to pay it.

With plumbing and electrical work, there is health and safety involved as previously mentioned, so the likelihood of someone doing a job for far less than its worth is much rarer.

In terms of painting and decorating, there seems to be no bottom line. Some people will work for absolute peanuts, but to the customers, if the price fits they're decorator's.

They are the ones that drag people's expectation of price down. You can be too expensive but never too cheap for some and the tracksuit bottom wearing, curtains for dustsheet and bussing it to the job brigade fill the void that us pros leave beneath us.

Sadly a lot of punters think we all should be working for the same money.



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 Post subject: Re: Undervalued trade
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:48 pm 
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Job I’ve just finished the tiler charged £700 and if he was there anymore than 12hrs in total I’d be surprised, plus maybe the adhesive and grout.


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 Post subject: Re: Undervalued trade
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:53 pm 
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Carpet fitters are the big earners..they earn more than plumbers & electricians.


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 Post subject: Re: Undervalued trade
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:00 pm 
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dubman2 wrote:
Carpet fitters are the big earners..they earn more than plumbers & electricians.
Looks like a career change lol

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 Post subject: Re: Undervalued trade
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:28 pm 
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dubman2 wrote:
Carpet fitters are the big earners..



And I'd heard that the carpet fitting trade was on it's knees...

I'll get my coat

:hiding:

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