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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:44 pm 
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There have been a few posts regarding this on here but I would like some up to date advice (for Wales if that matters).

I am converting a rather large downstairs utility room into a bathroom. It will have a toilet, sink and shower enclosure.

Ideally I would like the tumble drier & washing machine in there. They are both rated as suitable for bathrooms and obviously not inside any of the zones. I could (just!) put socket in that is 3m away from the footprint of the shower enclosure.

As the fusebox (RCD protected) is not far I was thinking to hard-wire the appliance cables into a dedicated fused switched spur (would this be classed as a socket in which case the 3m has to be observed?). Alternatively I could have a double socket on a 13A or 16A circuit breaker. The latter being easier if I ever replace the appliance. The sockets would be at floor level under a work surface probably behind a unit so guests finding them and plugging hairdryers or something in them would be very unlikely.

Would that all be according to building regs? Is there a better solution?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:08 pm 
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Do you intend to move house?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:41 pm 
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No, never ;)


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 3:19 pm 
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In that case definitely DON'T put a simple easy to use socket in there for the washing machine. I would never do that :wink:


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:30 pm 
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Since change of use needs planning permission it is down to the LABC inspector as to what is permitted. I converted a larder and toilet into a wet room, the parts of the building regulations say if the window opens you don't need a fan, however building inspector said opening the window would allow visitors walking to back door to see into the wet room, so he insisted a fan was installed.

You will clearly also have applied for planning permission and will have the LABC inspector involved, so no real option, you must ask him what he will allow, personally I would not fit a washing machine or tumble drier in a shower room, but since you feel you could get the socket 3 meters from the shower, then a divider which either touches ceiling or is over the height limit would seem to be the answer.

I have wondered why shower enclosures are not higher? However it is the LABC inspector who will have last word, so ask him to start with, and see what he says.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:52 pm 
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Why would I need planning permission? It was a utility room (with the washing machine & tumble dryer) and I am adding a toilet & shower enclosure. I am not enlarging the building. How on earth would anyone know if it was not already a bathroom anyway?



Anyway, I just had a read through the regulations and as far as I understand, a fused spur is allowed outside of the zones, a socket needs to be 3 mtrs away from the edge of zone 1. I can comply either way. It is the second bathroom & it is so large that it is perfect to keep the appliances in there.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:01 pm 
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When I did my wet room I had assumed (as it turned out incorrectly) builder had done all the paperwork, so when we kicked him off, I applied to take over the job.

I knew being in Wales I would need to apply to LABC to work on the electrics, however I was at that point unaware turning the pantry and toilet into a wet room required an application to LABC other than for the Part P electrical work, I was informed of my error in no uncertain terms. Lucky the work was for my mothers disability so there was no charge. And since it was for my mothers disability the council was well aware of the work being done, so it was not prudent to keep it a secrete, it had be done correctly. Just do what ever you want and say nothing.

If you think it's bad for you, consider how I feel as an electrician then electrical engineer when I have to apply to council to do electrical work on my own house. And when on selling the house I ask for copies of the completion certificates I am told it will cost £68 per hour to hunt for it, and I will need to wait 6 months while they move premises.

It does make the whole process pointless when they can't retrieve the documents on request, however for me not to inform you that the LABC inspector should be involved is also wrong, you can of course ignore what I say, but if you do, better you don't advertise what you intend to do, just do it.

However if your going to break the law frankly I don't want to know, and it is silly to broadcast what you intend to do, and if your not going to follow the there is really no point asking advice,


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:36 am 
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Having your washer and dryer in the bathroom is the normal thing here in France, if you think about it, its the obvious place, it's where you take off your mucky clothes and after a cat lick put your clean one's on :dunno: We are doing the same, but its a utility room that happens to have a shower :wink: . As for the wiring, again different here, they both have to be on their own protected circuit. :thumbleft:


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:53 am 
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Thanks ErikMark, I appreciate your feedback. I wasn't intentionally going to 'break the law'. The planning portal at gov.wales states that:

Quote:
Planning permission: kitchens and bathrooms
A planning application for installing a kitchen or bathroom is generally not required unless it is part of a house extension.

However, if your property is a listed building you should consult the local planning authority.


As a 'layman' I am happy to interpret this as that I don't need permission.

I (usually) have my part P notifiable work signed of by a qualified electrician as well and never had any problems with that in the past.

As with Nos above, my parents live in Europe and have appliances and sockets in the bathroom. I personally have no problems with it at all and my original question was just to ascertain that what I was doing was compliant with building regulations over here.

As an aside, I spoke to a friend last night who was telling me that he had gone around regulations by drilling through a wall and using the socket from another room. And he got that signed of by building control!


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:16 pm 
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ImageI would expect this is all you need, as lockable and the regs say for bathroom any electrical power needs to required tool or key to access, assume it's referring to behind bath panel but that will do the same.


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