DIY Forum

 

Ultimate HandymanUltimate Handyman on Pinterest

 

DIY Forum/Home improvement advice forum

 

 

A-Z CONTENTS | DISCLAIMER | DIY VIDEO | HOME | SAFETY FIRST | FORUM RULES

It is currently Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:17 am
Visit Hilti


Time zone: Europe/London




 

 


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Light switch
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:41 pm 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:18 pm
Posts: 769
Has thanked: 29 times
Been thanked: 3 times
Changed a simple light switch earlier, black cable was common and L1 red, previously doing this I'm sure red should be common? Or should I shut up now ha! Image

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on DiggShare on DeliciousShare on Google+
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Light switch
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:30 pm 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:49 pm
Posts: 24047
Location: hants/dorset border
Has thanked: 1507 times
Been thanked: 3811 times
Convention says that the red (permanent live) goes to com. However the switch itself neither knows nor cares whether red is in com or L1.

It just sits there being a switch.

_________________
Verwood Handyman

Verwood Handyman


___________________________________________________________________

If you feel you have benefited from the Free advice given on the Forum, Please consider making a donation to UHM's Nominated charity, read all about it and donate here :

http://www.donnasdreamhouse.co.uk/


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Light switch
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:44 pm 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:03 pm
Posts: 8128
Has thanked: 45 times
Been thanked: 1382 times
It really depends on how whoever wired it in the first place chose to wire it, the electricity is not going to complain about the colour of the insulation.
As wine~O suggests, ideally the red should be permanent live and the black should be switched live (With a red marker) But we don't live in an ideal world.

_________________
Fret not, a forum is a collection of opinions. Above, are mine.

Which is correct? Metre or Meter? Click the link to find out more.

Working on anything electrical? have you got a multi meter? why not? Would you hit a nail with a shoe?

If gloom had a voice, it would be me. :mrgreen:

:idea1: How to post a picture on this forum Click here


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Light switch
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:55 am 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:18 pm
Posts: 769
Has thanked: 29 times
Been thanked: 3 times
Thanks for the replies, what would happen if the red actually was the permanent live and these were swapped?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Light switch
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:17 am 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:03 pm
Posts: 8128
Has thanked: 45 times
Been thanked: 1382 times
mole81 wrote:
what would happen if the red actually was the permanent live and these were swapped?


As wine~O and I said

wine~o wrote:
However the switch itself neither knows nor cares whether red is in com or L1.

It just sits there being a switch.


someone-else wrote:
the electricity is not going to complain about the colour of the insulation.


The other thing to "wonder about" is:

Is the red permanent live? it may be that the black is permanent live, unless it is tested, or traced back to the other end, no one (apart from whoever installed it) will ever know.
But it's not a case of "well it works so it must be ok" it is a case of, it's wired correctly, it is using the correct size cable, and it works (But it does not have "coloured tags" to identify which is the live)

_________________
Fret not, a forum is a collection of opinions. Above, are mine.

Which is correct? Metre or Meter? Click the link to find out more.

Working on anything electrical? have you got a multi meter? why not? Would you hit a nail with a shoe?

If gloom had a voice, it would be me. :mrgreen:

:idea1: How to post a picture on this forum Click here


Last edited by someone-else on Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:21 am, edited 1 time in total.


For this message the author someone-else has received gratitude : mole81
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Light switch
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:20 am 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:18 pm
Posts: 769
Has thanked: 29 times
Been thanked: 3 times
someone-else wrote:
mole81 wrote:
what would happen if the red actually was the permanent live and these were swapped?


As wine~O and I said

wine~o wrote:
However the switch itself neither knows nor cares whether red is in com or L1.

It just sits there being a switch.


someone-else wrote:
the electricity is not going to complain about the colour of the insulation.


The other thing to "wonder about" is:

Is the red permanent live? it may be that the black is permanent live, unless it is tested, or traced back to the other end, no one (apart from whoever installed it) will ever know
So no risk of electrocution if the permanent live is in the switched live terminal?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Light switch
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:23 am 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:03 pm
Posts: 8128
Has thanked: 45 times
Been thanked: 1382 times
I am curious, why do you think there would be any danger / risk of death?

_________________
Fret not, a forum is a collection of opinions. Above, are mine.

Which is correct? Metre or Meter? Click the link to find out more.

Working on anything electrical? have you got a multi meter? why not? Would you hit a nail with a shoe?

If gloom had a voice, it would be me. :mrgreen:

:idea1: How to post a picture on this forum Click here


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Light switch
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:28 am 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:18 pm
Posts: 769
Has thanked: 29 times
Been thanked: 3 times
someone-else wrote:
I am curious, why do you think there would be any danger / risk of death?
Just because they are the wrong way round? I'm not an electrician I'm just capable of changing like for like! Suppose similar thinking if you mix up the terminals on a socket??

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Light switch
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:46 am 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:03 pm
Posts: 8128
Has thanked: 45 times
Been thanked: 1382 times
Oh, I see. Thank you. :-)

I shall explain the error in your thinking.

A light switch just sits there (as wine~O said) it is either on or off.

A socket can have anything plugged into it, most devices will "not care" which way round the supply is, but some will, it is these that can be a danger, not to mention that with most sockets the integral switch only turn off the live, so if the item plugged into a reverse-wired socket was still plugged in, but switched off the device and its cable are still live (The switch only turned off the neutral) so if the device was opened (lets say to remove a blockage) it would be possible to get an electric shock as the supply is the wrong way round. That is why before you open any electrical item you must make sure it is isolated from the supply, and the easiest way to do that is to unplug it.

Where as the humble switch, you only press the button, so it matters not which terminal is the live or switched live.

But you also did the right thing, by asking. Better safe than dead.

_________________
Fret not, a forum is a collection of opinions. Above, are mine.

Which is correct? Metre or Meter? Click the link to find out more.

Working on anything electrical? have you got a multi meter? why not? Would you hit a nail with a shoe?

If gloom had a voice, it would be me. :mrgreen:

:idea1: How to post a picture on this forum Click here



For this message the author someone-else has received gratitude : mole81
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Light switch
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:47 am 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:18 pm
Posts: 769
Has thanked: 29 times
Been thanked: 3 times
someone-else wrote:
Oh, I see. Thank you. :-)

I shall explain the error in your thinking.

A light switch just sits there (as wine~O said) it is either on or off.

A socket can have anything plugged into it, most devices will "not care" which way round the supply is, but some will, it is these that can be a danger, not to mention that with most sockets the integral switch only turn off the live, so if the item plugged into a reverse-wired socket was still plugged in, but switched off the device and its cable are still live (The switch only turned off the neutral) so if the device was opened (lets say to remove a blockage) it would be possible to get an electric shock as the supply is the wrong way round. That is why before you open any electrical item you must make sure it is isolated from the supply, and the easiest way to do that is to unplug it.

Where as the humble switch, you only press the button, so it matters not which terminal is the live or switched live.

But you also did the right thing, by asking. Better safe than dead.
Ahhh thank you that makes perfect sense, thanks for the clear explanation!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Light switch
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:01 am 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:03 pm
Posts: 8128
Has thanked: 45 times
Been thanked: 1382 times
:thumbleft:

_________________
Fret not, a forum is a collection of opinions. Above, are mine.

Which is correct? Metre or Meter? Click the link to find out more.

Working on anything electrical? have you got a multi meter? why not? Would you hit a nail with a shoe?

If gloom had a voice, it would be me. :mrgreen:

:idea1: How to post a picture on this forum Click here


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Light switch
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:43 am 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 3:43 am
Posts: 2696
Location: North Wales
Has thanked: 64 times
Been thanked: 545 times
mole81 wrote:
Just because they are the wrong way round? I'm not an electrician I'm just capable of changing like for like! Suppose similar thinking if you mix up the terminals on a socket??

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

But they are not wrong way around, although with an on/off switch permanent line is normally com, with a two way switch permanent line is normally L1 or L2, it would be very unusual to use com as permanent line with a two way switch, and with an intermediate switch you don't have a com.

Also both wires are line, one is switched the other permanent, but both are line.

Note:- both the phase conductor and neutral are considered live, so to distinguish the phase conductor is called line and clearly neutral is called neutral, I know we often think of line and live being the same, but if I call line live some one is sure to tell me, as I should know better, no one is worried what you call it however, we all know what you mean.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Light switch
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:06 pm 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:49 pm
Posts: 24047
Location: hants/dorset border
Has thanked: 1507 times
Been thanked: 3811 times
Well, between Someone-else and myself I thought we'd pretty much cleared up this thread in layman's terms.

and then...

_________________
Verwood Handyman

Verwood Handyman


___________________________________________________________________

If you feel you have benefited from the Free advice given on the Forum, Please consider making a donation to UHM's Nominated charity, read all about it and donate here :

http://www.donnasdreamhouse.co.uk/


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Light switch
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:57 pm 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:21 pm
Posts: 2925
Location: Kent, Land of Apples and PYO
Has thanked: 57 times
Been thanked: 591 times
lol, To be pedantic the black should have a red sleeve or marker, or a bit of red insulting tape with teeth marks in it (as long as its not harmonised colours)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Light switch
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:39 pm 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:18 pm
Posts: 769
Has thanked: 29 times
Been thanked: 3 times
Thanks for all the replies, simpler wins for me!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

 

 




Similar topics
   

Time zone: Europe/London


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Visit Solent plastics


 

 

 

News News Site map Site map SitemapIndex SitemapIndex RSS Feed RSS Feed Channel list Channel list
ultimatehandyman privacy policy

Contact

 

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group

phpBB SEO