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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:51 pm 
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I'm trying to put up a couple of candle holders and having a bit of a mare...

They're silver coloured 5-arm candelabra type things from Habitat - called Klein (wall version).

Two issues. Firstly, there is only one place we can put them in the flat (where the cats won't be able to stick their faces in the candles) and there are electric cables below the surface of the wall.

Secondly, as I found recently when putting up some lightweight blinds, the plasterboard must be old and has gone to powder. When you drill in, the hole ends up bigger than the drill bit, and you struggle to get any purchase with the plugs. This is a real issue, as these candle holders are pretty heavy. I'd say around 1kg each. Coupled with lit candles - they need to be secure.

So firstly, if I can detect the live cables accurately enough to screw in, what do I use? I bought some Rawlplug hollow wall heavy duty grabber screws, but the plaster is so powdery, the teeth just dig in then spin around & you can't expand the inner bit.

Secondly, earlier this year on another cabled part of the wall, I mounted a piece of wood with no more nails, painted it the wall colour, and screwed a coat rack into it - which is solid and has held well. What sort of weight do you think I can expect with this method, and what sort of size wooden board should I use? The mounting plates on the candle holder are approx 5" x 2"

Thanks.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:23 pm 
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you mention both plasterboard and just plaster
can you please confirm exactly what you think it is ??
in general powdery wall use a 6 or 6.5mm or1/4 " masonery drill bit and brown plugs
or 1mm smaller than recommended for the plug
also pad out the side or center with a 1/4 to half plug or whatever to stop it turning till it grips

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:43 pm 
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I'd say at a guess it's approx 1cm plasterboard.

Plasterboard everywhere in the flat, sometimes with brick below, but this area I want to use (a hollow outcrop) is pure plasterboard, wall section about 6" wide, two plasterboards with nothing in between but bloody cables.

Do what with the padding out thing? Sorry, didn't understand that bit. Tried drilling a tight hole, had to really squeeze in the hollow-wall/dry-wall screw. Pushed the teeth on the outer part into the plaster for purchase, but as soon as I started trying to turn the screw to expand the inner part, the teeth just crumbled the plaster and the screw just spins... uselessly.

Can't get a basic screw and plug to work as the hole can't be made tight enough to stop the plug & screw spinning before it's tight enough.

I thought maybe, if I'm very careful, a section of 10mm wood just bigger than the fixing plate, 4 screws short enough to go through the wood and into no more than the plasterboard layer, so maybe 2cm screws, combined with something like NMN or PinkGrip - something tough - to make a base plate I can then put more heave duty screws into.

The candle holder is only supported by two screws, it has those pear shaped holes where you hang the object over screws and it then slips down and secures.... so I'd then put two heavier 2.5 - 3cm screws through the wood, through the plaster, and leaving the heads sticking out 5 - 10mm to hang the things....


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:48 pm 
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Has the plasterboard been dot and dabbed onto the wall area or is that part of the wall a stud wall with plasterboard either side ?
If the plasterboard has been dot and dabbed onto the wall then you could drill straight into the brick/block behind and use corefix wall fixings https://bit.ly/2Mz282S

If the wall is made of wood studs and plasterboard either side then you could cut out and replace the plasterboard to the nearest vertical stud after inserting a ‘ plate ‘ of wood behind to screw into.

I have had similar issues elsewhere and I found none of the main types of fixings to be of any use because they all rely on the plasterboard being fairly sound.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:01 pm 
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You have to be careful as some newish flats have partition walls made entirely of plasterboard set in a metal track system. I am not sure of the name of this type of quick build wall but be careful hacking it around. :thumbright:

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:17 pm 
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paramount partition :dunno:

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:58 pm 
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See this video to get an idea https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amK2edm20ss As I said I think some new builds have internal walls made of three of four plasterboards glued together.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:04 pm 
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From what the OP states "... this area I want to use (a hollow outcrop) is pure plasterboard, wall section about 6" wide, two plasterboards with nothing in between but bloody cables." sounds like a plasterboarded MF wall. Thing is, if the plasterboard is in good condition, it shouldn't just turn to dust - even if it is 20 or 30 years old unless it has been damaged by damp. So I have to wonder what equipment the OP is using to do the drilling and exactly what sort of plugs they are using. Over many years I've found the screws and plugs supplied by the vast majority of electrical equipment manufacturers to be of dubious quality and in general too small for the task at hand. I'd suggest using a (sharp) standard twist drill to drill a fairly tight hole rather than a masonry bit and no hammer action. For hollow walls skip the standard plugs and go to one of the types of plugs specifically made for this type of wall, e.g. Fischer nylon plasterboard plug
Attachment:
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Fischer Duopower

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Fischer Duopower Plug 001_01.jpg
Fischer Duopower Plug 001_01.jpg [ 47.62 KiB | Viewed 362 times ]


Fischer UX plugs

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Fischer UX Plug 001_01.jpg
Fischer UX Plug 001_01.jpg [ 42.35 KiB | Viewed 362 times ]


bearing in mind that all these plugs are designed to work in lightly loaded situations, so it depends on how big/heavy the lights are and how far they project out from the wall. The other thing in PB is to always use the biggest screw (diameter) that your fitting will accept and to match the plug size to that. For heavier loads it may be necessary to go to what I call "umbrella fixings"

Attachment:
Rawlplug hollow wall anchior 001_01.jpg
Rawlplug hollow wall anchior 001_01.jpg [ 9.76 KiB | Viewed 362 times ]


or hollow wall anchors, which ideally need a specialist setting tool

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Rawlplug AT-88 setting tool 001_01.png
Rawlplug AT-88 setting tool 001_01.png [ 76.31 KiB | Viewed 362 times ]


to get a trouble-free installation. I've hung Spur shelving on stud walls with these many, many times over the years. Just avoid the really cheap ones and go for a quality brand such as Rawl (Rawlplug) or Fischer and buy the appropriate size for the wall thickness (normally 37mm for single skin PB)

Unfortunately, what works on pure drywall walling won't necesarilly work on walls with a plywood or OSB patress behind the plasterboard (as you'll often find in bathrooms or behind radiators) or on dot and dab walls (often only exterior walls). For those cases a different approach may be needed

Edit: An afterthought: This piece of dry walling might well be a boxing around a steel girder, in which case it would be double thickness (so 25mm instead of 12.5mm) in which case longer hollow wall anchors might be needed if that approach were taken

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Last edited by Job and Knock on Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:17 pm 
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dewaltdisney wrote:
You have to be careful as some newish flats have partition walls made entirely of plasterboard set in a metal track system. I am not sure of the name of this type of quick build wall but be careful hacking it around.

Plasterboard set into metal track could only be Paramount, as B-A mentions. It is actually a composite with two skins of PB either side of a honeycomb card, mineral wool or polystyrene-type core. In this part of the world it was used on council houses up to about 30 years back, but these days the only place I come across it is office partitioning systems. Part of the reason is weight. When you think about it if an 8 x 4ft sheet of standard (grey) 12.5mm PB weighs 32.5kg, you can imagine how heavy a double of triple thickness of material will be. The other system you linked is the Ozzie version of lightweight metal stud that is commonly used in the UK by the drywalling trades. Fast and flexible, as well as easy to cut round bulkheads, mouldings, etc which Paramount certainly isn't. Google Gypwall for the biggest supplier in the UK

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