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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:47 pm 
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I don't have any 54v tools and at current prices am reasonably unlikely to get any very soon. So the higher price of the flexvolt batteries (per Ah) doesn't immediately seem very attractive.

I can imagine the number of cycles may be slightly better, partly because the current drawn from individual cells would be proportionally less, and partly because (being higher capacity) the cycling would often be less deep. But the effects of age would still occur, and I'm not sure how dominant that would be. Presumably there would be a small power increase due to the overall internal resistance being lower, but again I'm not sure how much.

In these circumstances, are there likely to be any good arguments for paying the flexvolt premium?

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:18 pm 
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disadvantages
cost as said
about 45%bigger to allow for the 3 groups off batteries rather than the 2 groups in a 4or5 amp battery
i personally would just start with a kit with 2x4ah batteries and when you get to the third or fourth tool in your collection then think about more 18v or a flexivolt :huray:

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:19 pm 
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Thanks, so it sounds like nothing very useful to me currently then. And there certainly are disadvantages: I don't want to spend extra per Ah, or to have such big batteries on many tools, or to increase the cost of a battery failing. More smaller ones would also be better for using/charging in circulation. So all in all that seems like decision made. :-)

I already have some tools, just need to replace the old batteries - though it may be worth looking at combo deals.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:05 pm 
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flexvolt is still fairly new so you still pay a premium' every month prices come down a few percentage points
you may find within six or eight months the diffirence will be much closes so make the choice easier :huray:

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:01 pm 
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Thats a good point, thanks; I need some new ones but will avoid buying more than strictly needed. If there is such a thing!

Most 54v tools are too high-end for me to justify at the moment. But if the price drops, there would be an argument for having flexvolt batteries 'in case' some reason came up for 54v during the battery's lifetime.

TBH I'm not sure where things are headed. With the lightness and different capacities of Li-ions it is possible to cater for a very wide range of tool sizes and weights within the same battery format, and the 18/54v compatibility would extend that even further. But Dewalt's attention seems to be more towards the bigger tools at the mo, they aren't also offering the impressively compact 18v drills and drivers (other than impact drivers) that Matika and others have. If the trend continues longer term then I may end up getting a 10.8v set of some kind as well, but don't really want to run and carry two incompatible types of battery - sitting around ageing when the other is in use.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:40 pm 
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not sure if you fully understand the batteries and voltage
the 18v batts will be 10 x3.6v batts in two 5cell groups in parallel so a 4ah will be 2ah batts
where as 18/54v will be 15cells in 3 groups in parallel for 18v at 6 or 9ah[2ah or 3ah cells] and in series for 54v
now the efficiency and power are connected as in supper quick 54v = [power]runs down [fuel]quick but very strong but for shorter run time
other points about 18/54v it the power station so you can charge several batteries then use them as a mains source off mains power with a plug but not yet here in the uk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYEScE-Jo1k

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:15 am 
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Yes, no worries I understand them - but thanks for checking.

Though I didn't know about the mains source, thats quite an interesting idea. In fact, one could probably plug a charger in, to charge the batteries needed to keep it going :lol:

My thoughts above are more about where Dewalt is choosing to go with all this. They could now cover a huge range of sizes/weights/powers/capacity with one compatible battery fitting, which would be ideal for me, but currently they seem mostly to be extending towards the heavier end. In the other direction, Makita's little drill and especially their hex-driver for instance, show what could be achieved without dropping below 18v. But Dewalt don't yet have anything even close (short of impact drivers); if this is policy, rather than temporary, then I may end up with an additional (possibly lower voltage) kit, though I don't really want two kinds of battery.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 2:53 am 
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(oops wrong link for the drill I meant one of their 18v drills)

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:35 pm 
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In terms of Flexvolt I can only really see that as a"heavier end" product on account of the physical size of the battery packs. A few years back there were various 3rd party large capacity batteries available for Makitas which were about 1.5 times the depth of the OEM product but took you up to 4.5Ah in place of the OEM maximum (at the time) of 3Ah. The extra amperage was handy to have on tools where the extra bulk wasn't too much of a bugbear (e.g. circular saws, jig saws, etc) but for tasks where weight and compactness matters (e.g. impact driving, drilling, multi-tool work, etc) they were a right pain. A similar sort of argument applies to Flexvolt - yes, loads of amps, but at huge difference in price (at present) and physically too big for many tasks. Good if you see yourself going for something like a 10/12in chop saw, though

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 3:08 pm 
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Thanks, yes that does seem quite an important disadvantage. I just had a look at some videos and images; the flexvolts don't look utterly ridiculous on bigger combi drills though still add significant size and weight, but on the smaller tools they seem quite disproportionate and presumably the weight balance may be poor.

So if I got flexvolts then I'd likely also want to get smaller 18v batteries for drills and drivers too, with the flexvolts as backup for if/when needed. Better than having completely separate, incompatible types, but would still mean ending up with more batteries.

In any case, if both sizes were needed anyway, then I may as well just get 18v ones now and only bother about the flexivolts if/when needed. There isn't much that that a 5Ah couldn't do that a rather larger 6Ah could, or even 2x4Ah as they would be a similar price to one 6Ah.

Thanks again

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:46 pm 
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Do you see yourself needing the heavy batteries in the next 3 years? I ask that because right I'm now experiencing degradation of my batch of 3-1/2 year old 5Ah Makita batteries (probably charged around 600 to 700 times each) so maybe 4 years will see an end to them. I've just bought a Makita DSP600 2 x 18 volt plunge saw and with it came a couple of new 5Ah batteries. The difference in duration between the newest batteries and the oldest batteries is quite noticeable. Makita are already doing 6Ah batteries with rumours that they may be introducing a higher amp battery (8 or 9Ah?) in the same size package as the current 3 to 6Ah batteries. Maybe DW will follow suit on the grounds that the Flexvolts are just too big and heavy for some intensive tasks, and especially as the Flexvolts currently available are, if the truth be known, too low a capacity for intensive machining tasks (e.g. rip sawing, etc). Again, DW are supposedly putting out higher amperage Flexvolts in the near future.

TBH I don't think it matters what you buy, I doubt that you can future proof yourself that much - whatever you buy it will all be out of date within 6 months of getting it back to the van!

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:16 pm 
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they have 9ah for around £130

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:10 pm 
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Job and Knock wrote:
Do you see yourself needing the heavy batteries in the next 3 years? I ask that because right I'm now experiencing degradation of my batch of 3-1/2 year old 5Ah Makita batteries (probably charged around 600 to 700 times each) so maybe 4 years will see an end to them. I've just bought a Makita DSP600 2 x 18 volt plunge saw and with it came a couple of new 5Ah batteries. The difference in duration between the newest batteries and the oldest batteries is quite noticeable. Makita are already doing 6Ah batteries with rumours that they may be introducing a higher amp battery (8 or 9Ah?) in the same size package as the current 3 to 6Ah batteries. Maybe DW will follow suit on the grounds that the Flexvolts are just too big and heavy for some intensive tasks, and especially as the Flexvolts currently available are, if the truth be known, too low a capacity for intensive machining tasks (e.g. rip sawing, etc). Again, DW are supposedly putting out higher amperage Flexvolts in the near future.

TBH I don't think it matters what you buy, I doubt that you can future proof yourself that much - whatever you buy it will all be out of date within 6 months of getting it back to the van!

It is nice to know the 54v tools are coming in, but it is unlikely I shall have any in the next few years - so yes, I agree future-proofing would be dubious. I was mostly wondering if there was any advantage of them on 18v tools, but it seems not - in fact mainly the opposite.

My current 4Ah dewalt batteries were made in 2013 and as expected now offer much less run time than originally; at a guess they're around half original capacity or less. Which seems pretty good (as these things go), but they haven't had more than probably 500 charges, have not been charged (or often discharged) rapidly, and many of the cycles were not deep ones. If things go well, I will hopefully use the new/next batteries much more and so get better value from them, but their life will only be shorter.

So, I think i shall go for 5Ah replacements (possibly also a couple of 2Ah ones, for when small tools or compactness are needed). They seem to have fallen in price recently and so are a similar or better £/Ah as the 4Ah ones, yet no bigger or heavier. Plus, quite a bit smaller and cheaper than the flexvolts for only 1Ah less. So for my purposes 5Ah is probably the sweet spot at the moment.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:15 pm 
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big-all wrote:
they have 9ah for around £130

Are you referring to DW Flexvolts, B-A?

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:26 pm 
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yes sorry if you meant 18v :lol:

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