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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:04 pm 
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Hello

I am preparing to paint recently stripped walls (wallpapered for ~20 years), and have thoroughly cleaned the surfaces with sugar soap; applied filler to cracks and holes; and sanded down all filled imperfections.

However, I notice that there are points where the paint has flaked off with the wallpaper that aren't entirely smooth. Some points are basically patches where the single layer of paint from when the house was build has flaked off in chunks of ~1cm and left the underlying plaster exposed. Other points there are narrow but apparently slightly deeper lines where the paint has come off. Using a tester pot of paint to test their appearance once painted, applying two coats of emulsion in these spots still has the lines show through the paint as a slight 'valley' - slightly inset from the surrounding surface.

The following is a close up image of what I'm referring to:

Image

For reference, the largest missing patch of paint is about the size of a thumbnail.

My main concern is that these will show through the two coats of Dulux matt I plan to apply, more through a difference in texture/surface resulting in light reflecting differently at those points than any of the darker colour plaster showing through. I will be applying a coat of Zinsser Gardz before painting the emulsion on - will I get away with it as things are or should I do something about these imperfections before applying Gardz?

I have thought about trying to fill them, but am not sure the valleys are deep enough. Should I just trying sanding them all without any filling so that there is a more 'gentle' and smoother transition from the surrounding painted surface to the bare material underneath?

Thanks!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:53 pm 
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Remove any flaking paint, and go over the patches using the same filler as you used for the cracks. Use you filling knife and go over all the scratches and scrapes and any other indentations you find. Sand gently but sand the edges of the filler where it finishes over the old paint a bit more. If you need more than one coat of filler apply second coat.

The job should have been done as you were filling up the cracks but ...

If you are using Toupret it is meant not to need a mist coat of paint (i.e. emulsion diluted with some 20% water). You will lose nothing if you cover all the patches with a mist coat. Just use a brush over all the filled patches and feather the edges of the paint.



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:00 pm 
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Thanks for your continued input on this project OchAye.

I was worried about using filler as most of the scratches are very shallow compared to the cracks I filled. It'd be more like painting with filler paste than anything else. Just slightly concerned the filler won't really adhere, or that when I sand it down it'll just remove all the filler (as the layer will be so thin anyway).

Would I get away with simply leaving it dry and sanding it down to smooth out the lines where the edges of the scratches/patches meet paintwork? As mentioned I'll be using Gardz over the whole lot anyway as I may have trace amounts of wallpaper paste residue and there is some powdery residue left from when I cleaned the walls with sugar soap.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:20 am 
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Sorry I could not respond any earlier I was away visiting an old friend.

I am familiar with the depth of the scratches (from the photo most are the thickness of the previous coat(s) of paint. Whether you will get away or not depends on how particular you are. In your case you will not be happy as you are very particular :huray:

Since you are detailed, here is a detailed explanation.

A good filler will cover the patches where paint is missing (I assume the wall has been sugar soaped and rinsed). A poor filler will stick but will be removed too easily with just your finger tips[*], the toupret you got will be fine. You don't fill proud but instead you use a filling knife that is wider than not. e.g. a 50mm or a 75mm and wider. The idea is the knife gets its level from the surface surrounding the indentation and leaves enough filler over the indentation to make it level with the rest of the surface. If your knife is too flexible, if you press too much then you may create another less deep hollow, in that case be gentler and fill again.

Given you are not supposed to raise the level of the filled area above that of the surrounding surface, you are only sanding it in order to remove any imperfections of the filler and make it a bit smoother NOT to make it level with the rest unless is is raised. So the sanding you should be doing should not remove the filler from the indentation.

BTW. Your filler will go wider than the indentation unlike the repair you have been doing bellow .... the filler would normally overlap the painted area either side of the crack but it will all be one level.
Image

I am not too sure what I mean is clear, too much wine last night.

--
[*] The way I discovered toupret is because the Crown shop had sold me their own brand of filler that was absolute rubbish (that is a long time ago). If you sanded that it came off, if you rubbed it with your finger tips it came off. Went back and complained and asked for something better ... I was given toupret which from memory was X4 the price of their own filler.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:32 am 
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No worries at all, thanks for taking the time to help out.

I see what you mean, the defects do just seem to be missing paint rather than any damage to the underlying plaster.

Looking over the wall again, I can see a few of these defects have been unintentionally filled from when I was fixing the larger cracks and holes (i.e. missing paint patches that were very close to the cracks/holes also got covered in a bit of filler). It does look good when sanded down, I'm just having to decide now whether it's worth the time going over all the wall again filling and sanding. It would be like applying a skim coat to the entire wall given how close the defects are to each other and how numerous they are!


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:54 am 
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Odaik wrote:
I see what you mean, the defects do just seem to be missing paint rather than any damage to the underlying plaster.

It makes no difference if the defects are missing paint or digs at the plaster under the paint.

Quote:
Looking over the wall again, I can see a few of these defects have been unintentionally filled from when I was fixing the larger cracks and holes (i.e. missing paint patches that were very close to the cracks/holes also got covered in a bit of filler). It does look good when sanded down, I'm just having to decide now whether it's worth the time going over all the wall again filling and sanding. It would be like applying a skim coat to the entire wall given how close the defects are to each other and how numerous they are!

Given the time you spend thinking about it, it is worth doing but it is your call. And yes, it is like doing a skim coat. Well kind of doing a skim coat which requires a lot more skill to make a coat consistently 1, 2 or 3 mm thick without any guides to help you with the thickness. You got the depth guides from the existing plaster+paint so all you have to do is run your knife. trowel or tool of your choice against the existing surface.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:53 pm 
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I've tried a few coats of emulsion from a tester pot on an inconspicuous spot to see what it would look like without making the fixes, and it's just not working out. I think I will do as you suggest after all! Each spot of the Toupret filler only takes a few seconds to sand, it's just the sheer number means this could take a while.

Just out of curiosity more than anything, given that the depth of these defects is essentially just the depth of the missing layer of paint, why is it that I can't just fill them in with a dab of new paint to replace the missing paint?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:34 pm 
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Odaik wrote:
Just out of curiosity more than anything, given that the depth of these defects is essentially just the depth of the missing layer of paint, why is it that I can't just fill them in with a dab of new paint to replace the missing paint?


If you can figure out a way or putting paint on a wall that fills out what you want but not the rest you will half the consumption of filler and lining paper. How will you put just paint in the hollow (missing paint, scrape on the plaster etc)?

On a different approach, even if you could find a paint that would fill the bits without overlapping on the surrounding surface, you will need multiple coats to get the right thickness. It is down to you, some people would just paint it and will not worry about the outcome. I wouldn't paint it but it is your call as to how good a finish you want.

EDIT. PS. I am a DIYer, and what I said is what I would do for me or anyone else, and if I was helping someone else (not him) and they did not like my speed they can fecking do it themselves.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:02 pm 
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That makes sense, thanks OchAye. The powdered Toupret I got seems pretty versatile, but do you reckon I might be better off purchasing fine surface filler specifically for this job?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:20 pm 
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Toupret :-)


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:40 am 
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Sorry to sound like a tit, but do you mean just use the Toupret powdered stuff I already have or get Toupret Fine Surface Filler (only available pre-mixed I think)? :-)


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:09 pm 
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Use the fine surface, if/when you run out use the powder version. I am too tight most of the time to buy the pre-mixed versions.



For this message the author OchAye has received gratitude : Odaik
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