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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:56 pm 
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Hi,

I'm looking for some advice on what works are necessary to re-instate a chimney breast that was taken down by the previous owners of our 1960s semi. The stack was only removed at ground floor level and its looks like the stack above (spare bedroom, loft, roof) is solely supported by a couple of joists.

We had a gas fiter take a look and he stated that they wouldn't build up a wall until a lintel was inserted to support the existing stack. We sought out a second opinion and we're told by a brick specialist that there's nowhere for a lintel to go in this situation and it's not necessary anyway. He said he would put up 3 or 4 Acrow Props to support the stack above while working on building up a new stack from the floor up to it.

Does this sound about right? Does what the brick specialist says meet the regulations?

Basically we are wanting a new glass-fronted inset gas fire put in and want it to meet any applicable building regs so we're not caught out by a survey if we decide to sell in a few years.

Our fire of choice requires a Class 1 chimney, and from my limited knowledge, whether it's Class 1 or Class 2 is determined by the type of chimney and flue. The chimney itself definitely Class 1.

Any advice is much appreciated.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:29 pm 
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A chimney can't since the 60's 8ve built just from masonry and mortar. It must have a suitable lining system installed. This will usually be a concrete, pumice or terracotta. You cannot build a chimney and line it with a stainless steel flexible liner. These are for relining existing chimneys not lining a new chimney.

The way id do it though is build a false chimney breast in the room to house the gas fire and use a stainless steel twin wall himney system. Will be quicker easier and cheaper.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:09 pm 
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Your brickie knows what hes doing, ie prop existing stack, reinstate lower part of chimney opening and breast, make sure its all tied in to existing wall, then solid packing to pick up existing flue.
Your brickie will check existing flue diameter/size and use the same, same goes for constructing the throating.
Whichever fire you fit, will need a liner, different ones for gas and solid fuel, and to be checked/tested by gas safe or hettas.
You might need to run it through building control.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:33 pm 
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It's not possible to properly line the lower half of a chimney with the same lining system. He will get to a certain point when building up where he can't fit the section properly and he will have to just fill the gap with mortar. Not acceptable. Only entirely safe way is twin wall and reline any existing chimney with flexible liner. Unless there's no chimney remaining whatsoever he can't rebuild it with bricks and a matching block liner.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:39 pm 
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Yes it can be reinstated, a competent brickie will have no problems, the flue is probably brick.

Read a bit more carefully, I'm sure I stated fit a liner.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:02 pm 
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I read perfectly which is why I'm saying it. It can be bricked up properly but the lining system can't be rebuilt properly. Simply relining the new masonry chimney with a flexible liner isn't a suitable. Whether or not your opinion is it can be done, the national association of chimney engineers, HETAS (both which I'm a member of) and the building regs disagree with you.

If you've got a concrete of terracotta liner, you can't install them properly unless it's installed in it's entirety from top to bottom. You cannot build it up to meet a new one. And like I already said, a flexible metal liner isn't allowed as a lining system for a newly built chimney.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:35 pm 
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Can I ask why that is Joshy? Why can't you use a flexi liner in a new chimney? I was just following this thread and wondered why?

Cheers

DWD


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:55 am 
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It's because a flexible liner is a temporary relining system as opposed to a permanent lining system. It is for repairing damaged lining that is already there; be it a clay lined chimney or parged chimney. They're only used so much because they're cheap and easy to install. For example on my trade account I can buy 10m of good quality lner for £100 + vat. To be honest it's notba particularly good product, it's just people don't like laying the extra money for the better products, like furanflex, eldfast or cico cast-in-situ relining systems.



For this message the author Joshy88 has received gratitude : dewaltdisney
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:35 pm 
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The chimney flue is a 1960 so will probably be brick built with no liner fitted.
From about 65 liners were built in.
Show me where it states an after market liner cant be fitted.
Weather or not you have an account, you wont get 10m of good quality liner for £100
We only use 904/904 twin wall, with 20yr guarantee with good trade discount a lot more than £100, unless you are buying the cheap imports on fleabay.
Fireflex Master ( Hetas ) give life time warranty, only advise to change liner if changing stove or serious fire.
Its a gas fire being fitted, so the fitter will ensure proper liner is fitted and tested
Liners are not temporary
Have you fitted cico lining system



For this message the author cotswold builders has received gratitude : james232
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:03 pm 
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iirc isn't there a system where you inflate a tube in the chimney and pump a mix in around it once dry deflate the tube ?

eg.

http://www.chimneycrete.com/linings/

personally I would fit a RSJ across the room to support the chimney and not bother with a new stack


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:21 pm 
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Cico chimney liners , you need to open up the inside where there are bends etc in the flue to centralise the tube.

He needs to reinstate the stack to use it, plus apparently the rest of the stack is sitting on timber floor joists.

Dualweaponworld, can you remove some of the ceiling and give us an upskirt photo.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:42 pm 
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I understand that you think you know everything about everything, but a flexible flue liner, whether 316/316, 316/904 or 904/904 is considered a temporary solution. I don't know why you want me give you a quote from the building regulations. Last time I checked every building material wasn't listed in the building regs. Oh, and fireflex master? Most of the crap you find on eBay is made by docherty, who make that. I can get fireflex master for about 15 quid a meter when buying the 904. They send me letters asking me to buy from there a few times a year. I wouldn't fit their stuff. Most professional installers agree it's not so tough as the majority of liners, with a lifetime warranty or not. I'd go in to how the lifetime warranties dont mean anything but I can't be bothered. Oh, and they advise that it's changed when the stove is changed because they have to. That is because a flexible liner is considered temporary.

Oh and he said 60's. Not 1960. So a good possibility that is is terracotta or clay lined. And for future reference the date you quote is when the regulations changed. A lot of house builders were using liners before then. I've been in to houses built in the 50's with original liners.

All I can do is suggest you call hetas or nace regarding installation of flexible liners in a new chimney so they can explain how it's not allowed. No point in getting in to a debate about it.


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