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 Post subject: Matt over Silk
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 5:14 pm 
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I know a lot of you chaps have said you never have problems with this as long as you give the silk a good rub and wash down first, but I`m about to do a hallway and the ceiling is heavy artex and the walls are heavily embossed wallpaper, so sanding is a tad difficult. The lady insists she is fine with silk again, but I can tell she would prefer matt. Any suggestions?


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 Post subject: Re: Matt over Silk
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 5:35 pm 
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If she is happy with silk, then why make things difficult for yourself..?
However, if matt is the chosen route, and given the wallpaper, I'd suggest a coat of something like Zinsser 123 as even washing down may cause problems.


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 Post subject: Re: Matt over Silk
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 6:26 pm 
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Just crack on with it. It'll be absolutely fine.

The matt over silk thing only really applies to flat surfaces, if at all.

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 Post subject: Re: Matt over Silk
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 7:05 pm 
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:withstupid:

This adhesion thing is an utter myth. Flat surfaces can benefit from a quick sand and wipe, but any decent trade matt will adhere and cover fine over silk in 2 coats.

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 Post subject: Re: Matt over Silk
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:35 pm 
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A while back when I painted (for the only time) Crown soft sheen or whatever it is called I went straight back and bought the same colour in matt ... the matt was cracking/crazying over the soft sheen quite a bit but I chose to live with 1 coat of matt :-(

Zinsser Gardz perhaps as a first coat?


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 Post subject: Re: Matt over Silk
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:14 pm 
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You know, I just don't know where this need for Gardz or BE123 comes from?

I've been decorating professionally for nigh on 34 years, and I've never encountered the need for these primers over silk.

Gardz is a plasterboard/masonry stabiliser, and isn't intended or needed as a bridging coat. I've experienced dispersion once in all these years, and we were using gash Hird Hastie matt. Any good quality trade emulsion over a correctly prepped surface will be fine.

Correct preparation over smooth surfaces (sand, dust, wash) is all that is needed when going from silk to matt
This Gardz thing needs put to bed once and for all, as it is a) entirely unnecessary and b) extra and needless expense if it's a paying situation.

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 Post subject: Re: Matt over Silk
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:27 pm 
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I could see your answer coming before you posted it;-) I only mentioned Gardz because the OP could not sand the wallpaper.



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 Post subject: Re: Matt over Silk
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 10:24 pm 
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Johnstone's Trade recommend sanding with fine sandpaper and washing prior to applying their vinyl matt over glossy surfaces.

Similarly, lots seem to think PVA is a good idea on new plaster, but I've yet to see a paint manufacturer recommend it as part of the preparation process.



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 Post subject: Re: Matt over Silk
PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 12:17 am 
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OchAye wrote:
A while back when I painted (for the only time) Crown soft sheen or whatever it is called I went straight back and bought the same colour in matt ... the matt was cracking/crazying over the soft sheen quite a bit but I chose to live with 1 coat of matt :-(

Zinsser Gardz perhaps as a first coat?

I think that is where people get mistaken.

I honestly think the crazing is only an issue if you apply a coat of soft sheen or silk, and then a coat of matt, and it's caused by them drying differently.



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 Post subject: Re: Matt over Silk
PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 8:21 am 
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I would tend to see the logic of crazing by doing different sheen levels as different coats.

I once tried mixing matt and silk, and it came out a stringy mess that didn't work at all. Matt and silk are very different beasts.

To the OP - I can't see any problems over a textured, dried surface, provided the matt emulsion is of good trade quality, and the surface is clean.

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 Post subject: Re: Matt over Silk
PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 10:20 am 
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I get the message :-)



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 Post subject: Re: Matt over Silk
PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 10:34 am 
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fitzy wrote:
OchAye wrote:
A while back when I painted (for the only time) Crown soft sheen or whatever it is called I went straight back and bought the same colour in matt ... the matt was cracking/crazying over the soft sheen quite a bit but I chose to live with 1 coat of matt :-(

Zinsser Gardz perhaps as a first coat?

I think that is where people get mistaken.

I honestly think the crazing is only an issue if you apply a coat of soft sheen or silk, and then a coat of matt, and it's caused by them drying differently.



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I'm sure this has been advised on here in my time at UHM.


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 Post subject: Re: Matt over Silk
PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 12:13 pm 
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Glad you mentioned mixing matt and silk, Och Aye, as a search I did previously mentioned this with favourable results- on a well respected painter`s site too. I`ll banish that idea then! Another intimated that silk on silk was fraught with danger too. I just keep remembering a HSL years ago(embossed paper again, matt over silk) that I had trouble with the fine cracking/crazing effect that ended up taking four coats before it was satisfactory. That could have been poor quality retail paint though, to be fair.


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 Post subject: Re: Matt over Silk
PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:34 pm 
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I have to add that my only experience of crazing is second-hand - it was something I was told about many years ago, so on the few times I've had to go over silk with matt I have always erred on the side of caution as I do not want to risk anything on a paid job. It doesn't take long to slap on a coat of 123, although maybe it has just been me wasting my time. That said, should I get asked to cover silk with matt again I am likely to carry on as before, but as the last time must have been about 10 years ago I won't worry too much about the extra cost..!


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 Post subject: Re: Matt over Silk
PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:00 pm 
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Beg your pardon it was dyna that mentioned the silk/matt mixing fiasco. I`m too full of lamb, sorry. I`ll just use some good stuff and it should be ok. Many thanks to all.


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