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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:52 pm 
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It was suggested the electric section was not suitable, there are some examples the double fairlie Image and the Garratt Image both are still used at Porthmadog where the tracks of the Ffestiniog and Welsh Mountain railway meet.

Although I can find drawings on the engines Image and some descriptions with comments like "Early design and construction difficulties involved the steam-tight flexible connections between the boiler unit and the power units. These were solved by Beyer, Peacock's designers after studying a description of the spherical steam joints used on a Fairlie locomotive built for the Ffestiniog Railway followed by a visit to the FR to observe these locomotives at work." however it does not expand on this, so how was the steam taken from the boiler to the engine?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:40 pm 
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It would be direct to a compression chamber and a couple of valves similar to a combustion engine

The valve opening and closing is where the Cho Cho comes from :lol:



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:36 pm 
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Great that you've established an Approved Home for this interest.
My contacts with the Ffestiniog - Rheilffordd Ffestiniog date from the early 1960 and I was an early rider on the extended track after the opening of 'the loop'.
My connections with The Welsh Highland Railway (WHR) - Rheilffordd Eryri date from the early 1970s when I walked the track bed from Beddgelert to Porthmadog, and then from Bethgelert to Caernarfon.
I joined the fledgeling restoration society and remained a 'Country' member for a few years.
I gave up when the whole venture became mired in splits, attempted takeovers, financial problems, standoffs with local Gov't and general infighting.
So pleased that the pair are now 'bedded' in.
You write:
Porthmadog where the tracks of the Ffestiniog and Welsh Mountain railway meet.
I seem to recall that the then British Railways main line ran parallel too.
The last time I was at the harbour it seemed to be dominated by large plastic boats and partially shielded from view by large plastic holiday flats.
Porthmadog probably has at least 5 flavours of supermarket by now to cater for that trade.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:47 am 
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I know there was a legal fight as to who ran the line. The Welsh Highland Heritage railway I have not visited yet, only the Welsh Highland Railway. The problem for me is although we can visit and see the engines run, we don't really have mush informations about how the engine was designed and works.

The Garratt and double Fairlie are something we never saw with main line trains.

I also walked the track bed from Beddgelert towards Porthmadog, at that time it was the foot path, today the foot path is not so easy to walk as I found out last year, at the bridge at the end of the pass we went up the mountain and the walk followed a aerial way which is now completely wreaked, but I would assume it at one time brought some minerals to the railway. I did the round trip down the steps and back to Beddgelert. Well not quite some kind sole gave me a lift from lake back to Beddgelert. It was a 5 miles walk and we had 5 hours to do it in, seemed easy until I tried it, jumping from stone to stone instead of an old level track bed did not help.

I seem to remember as a lad walking the track bed there were some holes in the floor of the tunnels, seem to remember you needed a torch.

The huge lamp on the front of the Garratt I assume is electric? How it's powered I don't know, It's not a fast train however on the bridge near the summit I took photos then tried to follow the train by then down hill on my push bike, holding my DSLR in one hand and had it not been for the station I would not have caught it up. I would guess around 15 to 20 MPH when on down hill track.

I know many of the narrow gauge railways have a one way gradient, so engine only needed to take trucks up hill, they can return without an engine. Not sure how they ensured truck coming down did not hit engine coming up?

Seems the same group of people who keep our canals going also kept the narrow gauge railways going. However the narrow gauge near me in Mold is rotting away, seems the land was sold without giving the owner the option to get his railway engines back, mostly first world war stuff. Pity to see it rotting away.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:33 am 
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Hello Eric Mark near Mold - Yr Wyddgrug - from a former 'Lad' - 'hogyn bach' - from near Dinbych - Denbigh.
I got an 'O' Level @ GCE in Welsh @ what was termed O3 = as a foreign language.
Away to my construction work, "mynd diawl" = ??? highly idiomatic.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 6:46 am 
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Then like me you will remember the Mold - Denbigh railway? Not sure when it stopped, when I was in my 20's they were still running to chemical works and quarry, now Tesco built where station was. But when the track was lifted the ballast remained, so a local man between Mold and Rhydymwyd set up a little track and had some world war 1 engines.

When the local land owner died the farms were sold and from that point he has been unable to visit his engines. They lie rotting, the land was going to be bought by the council and made into a foot path, but cut backs mean it was shelved.

Most narrow gauge and one standard gauge engines.

"Rheilffordd Ffestiniog date from the early 1960 and I was an early rider on the extended track after the opening of 'the loop'." that loop was quite a task, watched films of it, but at that time my interest was not trains.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:45 pm 
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I certainly do remember that railway - it used to go from Chester thru' the lower geographical part of Denbigh on to Ruthin and thence to Corwen.
There was a substantial contingent which travelled all the way from Bodfari to the secondary schools in Denbigh in the 1940s. 50s and early 1960s.
In the early 1960s those of us in the catchment area of that railway and studying at Cardiff or Swansea University had but one service which would get us there in one day.
Gradually the numbers built up as we neared Chester. That fair city was then the meeting point for small crowds of others travelling to those jewels of South Wales.
The end of term saw the same in reverse, this time buoyed up by certain beverages and much singing.
At the change in Chester, a pressing problem arose for the N Wales contingent - the carriages were NON-corridor.
Again Bodfari featured as it was the first station at which the train stopped for a few minutes.
Suddenly the Station 'Gents' became 'Unisex', with men being granted Standing Only facilities.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:53 pm 
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PS
There was a tale / Urban myth, that a certain site in Mold had been the storage for 'poison' gas stockpiled from W Ws 1 +/ 2. I seem to remember it was adjacent to the railway line on flat ground.
With the expansion of almost all towns, presumably that tale has been resolved?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:07 pm 
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MANY thanks for your update, originally posted elsewhere, on those narrow-gauge railways which did so much to make the Slate industry in Snowdonia world famous. A small part of a small country which Roof-ed the world

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Now although there is a rail service to Beddgelert now, it started 1923 and finished in 1937 and the town was called Beddgelert before and between those times, before around 1960 unless there was a railways then it was not a tourist attraction. It was 2011 before the railway was reopened.

It is now well worth the visit, the curves in the track mean it has to be narrow gauge, because it is so popular there are many carriages on each train, to pull such a weight the engine needs to be massive, there were two firms making railways engines called Garratt one in Suffolk and one in Manchester well the one in Manchester was actually called Beyer, Peacock and Company but the engine they made was called the Garratt they were made for use in Africa and articulate, but have been brought back to UK and now run on the Welsh Highland railway. They are the biggest narrow gauge engines I have ever seen.

Image not my picture but I do have some I have taken, the design Image means loads of weight on the wheels for traction and it is very powerful, seeing one of these cross the bridge where the road and rail share the same bridge at Porthmadog is quite a sight.

The link between Caernarfon and the main line railway is still rather slow, Ffestinoig railway and Welsh Mountain railways are both slow, great for a day out, but not really an option getting A to B. The routes across North Wales through Bala have gone with the Labour party closing the lines, Dr Richard Beeching was asked how to make railways pay, and he said how to do it in a report, with a note that in some cases there was reasons why the cuts were not in the interests of the country, but Labour party selected to ignore the warnings and just axed railways services around the country the only exception was where doing so may have caused a labour MP to loose his seat. Wales was hit hard by the cuts, and as it transpired the invention of the unmanned level crossing gates would have resulted in many lines not needing to close. It was the cost of manning level crossings which killed many lines.

No longer can you buy a rail ticket for a week and do a circuit of North Wales. I could as a lad, and remember going through Bala by train.

In the very early 1950s a train-load of we primary and young secondary pupils were whisked off by steam train for a day visiting so many of the places you mention in your short 'history lesson'.
No such luxury now as so many lines were closed under the Beeching axe.
Interesting to note is that as the railways were closing under a Labour regime, the Famous Mr, then Lord, Marples was an 80% shareholder in Marples Ridgway and Partners, motorway builders.
Dr Beeching was (reputedly) offered a place as a manager of the Beatles' Apple venture, whilst his one-time boss Lord Marples did a runner to Monte Carlo in 1975, followed later by a very large # of ex-Tea chests.

It is claimed that there was a fair amount of pressure on the Labour Gov't to promote M'ways by those T Unions with large memberships in car production with Ford, Rootes, General Motors and other large UK producers.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:59 pm 
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AAA.Handy.Man wrote:
PS
There was a tale / Urban myth, that a certain site in Mold had been the storage for 'poison' gas stockpiled from W Ws 1 +/ 2. I seem to remember it was adjacent to the railway line on flat ground.
With the expansion of almost all towns, presumably that tale has been resolved?

Not myth Rhydymwyn was the place. there were local access points but ladders now all cut off, so you can't get down any more.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:54 pm 
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WoW!..... :shock:
After all these years, and of course, Rhydymwyn, another of those compound words become a place name. Somewhat like Rhydydefaid Street which was (in)famous for its Anglisized pronunciation some many years ago.

:thumbleft: Many thanks, Ericmark. :thumbright:


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:28 pm 
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I seems during the war many bombs were dropped around Mold, at the time it was claimed the efforts to light fires on Moel Famau were successful in luring the enemy bombers away from Liverpool, but I wonder if in fact they knew what was there and were trying to hit the railway line?

My mother tells me how trains at night could be seen for miles as they often emitted sparks from the chimney where pulling hard, and living about 1/2 a mile from the railway I know in the days of steam you could hear the engines as they repeatedly tried to get up the hill, all well and good with passengers, but with goods often the engines were overloaded.

But the Beddgelert line was not really for passengers, I know a tourist attraction now, but around 20 miles Carnarvon to Porthmadog it takes between 37 and 49 minutes by bus, 2 hours 10 minutes by train. Do you remember the slogan "Its quicker by train"? It is a really beautiful route, and when we went as a camera club we found the speed was an advantage, you could see something pick up camera focus and take a picture. When we went on the Seven Valley Railway it was too fast to do that. Llangollen was something very different, it stopped, we got out, we set up and it did half a dozen passes for us to take pictures, the engine driver drove it from the carriage on the way back, so we could ask what we wanted. Carriage like this Image See Push-Pull train I seems many blamed that system for the accident when a Landrover came off the motorway onto the train track. Had it not been a Push-Pull then the engine would have hit the Landrover first and would have likely not derailed. Because the lighter carriage hit first with engine pushing it derailed then engine pushed the carriages into each other.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:02 pm 
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At secondary school in the very early 1950s we had a most enterprizing Physics teacher who had scoured Snowdonia for the remains of crashed (German) aircraft to gain access to various meters and other devices which would supplement the meagre supplies available via school funds.
Well, that's what he told us.
As to the Push-Pull trains (For which reference many thanks.) the Snowdon Mountain - rack and pinion - Railway has the engine down hill of the carriages.

Attachment:
Snowdon.3.jpg
Snowdon.3.jpg [ 96.04 KiB | Viewed 916 times ]


The Chester to Ruthin-Corwen main-line (1864) didn't have a tuntable outside Chester (AFAIR), so a locomotive facing forwards at the front of the carriages would re-appear at Denbigh
Attachment:
Denbigh-Railway-Station.1.jpg
Denbigh-Railway-Station.1.jpg [ 39.17 KiB | Viewed 916 times ]


going in reverse all the way back to Chester - but at least at the (new) front of the train.
Even rougher than normal for the footplate crew in the driving rain and snow.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:59 pm 
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Since you can see Snowdon railway from the Welsh Mountain Railway when at Rhyd Ddu I expect you can see Rhyd Ddu in that picture of the Snowdon railway? However I think I was using a 270 mm lens, (DX sensor) and I would not think the same is true in reverse.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:36 pm 
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BBC R4

The Listening Project - A Love of the Railway


Quote:
Fi Glover introduces a conversation between two volunteers on the historic Talyllyn narrow-gauge steam railway, who compare notes on how working on it benefits them personally.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04pshgh


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