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 Post subject: Removing gib key.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 5:04 pm 
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Hi,

Just for a bit of interest; here's what I've been doing today.

I knew today would be a struggle. Before retiring in 2000 I scrounged a fume extractor unit from Brook Motors where I worked; this extractor was from a big shrink wrapper and had been running five and a half days a week for over 15 years. At home I converted it into a big chip/sawdust extractor and for the last 16 years it's been brilliant; I was running it from my home made 3 phase 415V transformer and it never missed a beat. It's 1.5hp 3 phase.

I'm about to start remodelling our garage into a full time workshop now the Yeti sleeps out freeing up the whole garage. I no longer need the huge 3 phase transformer and hence I no longer need this big extractor both freeing up a lot of space. The motor on this extractor though is top quality Brooks and it's been running to my knowledge for over 30 years; I wanted to retain this motor because they are expensive to buy and I know just how good it is. The big metal fan was secured to the motor shaft with a gib key; I've always disliked removing gib keys because they are usually hammered home making them virtually impossible to remove; I first encountered gib keys as an apprentice over 50 years ago and I didn't like these keys even then.

I tried the usual cold chisel and hammer but access was poor and all I achieved was to round over the key head. As I say I knew I was in for a struggle today; rather than waste hours trying to remove this wayward key I cut a heavy small piece of steel to fit closely around the head of the key; to this I welded a 10mm threaded rod; actually a 10mm set screw with the head removed; then I welded the piece of steel to the head of the key taking a great deal of care not to weld the fan and shaft together. Using spacers I then simply put on a washer and nut then used my socket set; the key finally gave in and was at last withdrawn without causing any damage other than to the key itself. Here is a video showing exactly the old technique I used to withdraw this gib key;



At this point I thought I'd done the hard part expecting the fan to pull away from the shaft without too much hassle but how wrong could I be. The hub of the fan was drilled and tapped to accept two 6mm extracting set screws; I tried extracting using the set screws and a heavy bar threaded to accept a 10mm set screw but having applied as much pressure as I dare I quit; I didn't want my knuckles bashing if the 6mm set screws suddenly snapped. I knocked off for dinner to give this a bit more thought. After dinner I opened up both 6mm threaded holes drilling and tapping at 8mm I also made a new short stout steel bar at 1" square; this was drilled and tapped at 10mm on centre and 8mm clearance holes were drilled to accept 8mm bolts. I used a short wrecking bar to prevent the fan from spinning. The motor shaft end is drilled and tapped as standard from Brooks at 6mm; I cut a short 6mm set screw and dimpled the head on centre then I screwed this into the shaft end; the dimple was added to locate a steel ball bearing; the end of the 10mm set screw was also dimpled on centre; the ball bearing would accept the thrust without causing damage to the motor shaft. With everything set up the fan came away at last with a hefty tug on the 1/2" drive socket; all this has taken about four hours but now I have a top quality motor for future use which I can use either as 3 phase or add capacitors and run it at reduced power from our single phase supply; once I get the new workshop up and running one of the first jobs I'll do is to treat this motor to a pair of new SKF bearings.

I'm pleased to retain this motor and at 3 o'clock I thought I've just got time to visit our local tip to dispose of the big heavy fan housing etc and also take along the five bags of rubble from the water ingress repairs I'm currently doing; the tip closes at 4 o'clock. I arrived at the tip in plenty of time and soon dumped the metal in the metal skip; now where's the rubble skip? I asked a tip employee where the rubble skip now was to be told that about a month ago our wonderful Kirklees Council who rip us off with council tax decided to discontinue the skip and that I would now have to phone Kirklees so that they could come and collect; I didn't ask how much this was going to cost. It was pointless being awkward with the tip attendant after all he was only the messenger so I politely thanked him and returned home with five full bags of rubble.

I was very pleased to get into the garage today to do this job which I found interesting and is something I was trained to do so I was keeping my hand in; it's so easy to wade in with a big hammer and destroy a motor when these keys refuse to come out but a lot of patience goes a long way so it's no good wanting to do a job like this in a few minutes. :huray:

Kind regards, Col.

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 Post subject: Re: Removing gib key.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 5:52 pm 
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Like Kirklees our local tip changed at the beginning of November.. now if you want to dispose of rubble or soil they charge at £ 3.50 for each container of up to 30 Kg...

This on the basis that the soil goes to landfill. :?

Edit ... oh and good job removing the thing-a-me-bob from the bamboozle shaft... :hiding:

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 Post subject: Re: Removing gib key.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 6:00 pm 
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wine~o wrote:
Like Kirklees our local tip changed at the beginning of November.. now if you want to dispose of rubble or soil they charge at £ 3.50 for each container of up to 30 Kg...

This on the basis that the soil goes to landfill. :?


And they wonder why flytipping is rife?



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 Post subject: Re: Removing gib key.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 6:16 pm 
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If the councils could do the same with rubbish as they do with money, the waste problem would be solved for good!
It's certain that no matter how much money you stick into the council, you get nothing back out!

Interesting about the gib head key Col. Haven't had to do one for many a year. Always used to breath a sigh of relief if they came out without too much struggle.
I used to have a pair of flat bars something like 6 X 30 X400 mm with a sort of "nail file" end shape ground into one end. A lot of leverage there.
Been told you can remove the keys with folding wedges, but I don't think I've ever tried that.



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 Post subject: Re: Removing gib key.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 9:47 pm 
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Hi,

If our council like many other councils sacked a few top enders on over £100,000 per year then perhaps services wouldn't be cut but then perhaps not. ::b I can store the bags of rubble and use these for future projects so it's not a major problem but I do wonder why the heck we pay council tax when even the most basic of services gets cut.

Like you Dave54 I can't remember removing a gib key since I was in the pit 50 years ago; we used to have cast iron gears at over 6' diameter secured with these keys and generally the key was big and strong enough to remove with a cold chisel and heavy hammer; once the corners of the key are rounded though then it sure is bad news. The gib keys do a brilliant job but are such a pain to remove. I'm very pleased though to retain the motor even if it took so much time and effort. :thumbleft:

All these old skills are dying with the old boys who practised them during their working life and these old boys aren't being replaced; where will it all end? I bet many members haven't heard of a gib key. :scratch:

Kind regards, Col.

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 Post subject: Re: Removing gib key.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 10:51 pm 
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I had enough trouble getting a Woodruff key out of the shaft on my lift control arm on my old tractor. A bloody Gib key looks ten times worse. :shock:

DWD



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 Post subject: Re: Removing gib key.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 11:58 am 
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Retired wrote:
Hi,

All these old skills are dying with the old boys who practised them during their working life and these old boys aren't being replaced; where will it all end? I bet many members haven't heard of a gib key. :scratch:

Kind regards, Col.


I was thinking earlier that the fun part comes when you're changing the motor or pulley, find the keyways on the two parts are misaligned, and have to file a stepped key to fit.
It was an exercise we did as apprentices, and I've had to do it a couple of times in the real world. A right PIA to get right!

As you say though, the skills to do these, and lots of other things requiring manual skills, are being lost. They're there in books sure enough, but that doesn't explain all the other stuff you need to know to do these jobs.



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 Post subject: Re: Removing gib key.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 12:13 pm 
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Retired wrote:

I bet many members haven't heard of a gib key. :scratch:



This one hadn't, but I googled it before I continued to read your first post.

I don't think I'd have got it out if a big hammer wouldn't do it. :oops:

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 Post subject: Re: Removing gib key.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:59 pm 
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ayjay wrote:
Retired wrote:

I bet many members haven't heard of a gib key. :scratch:



This one hadn't, but I googled it before I continued to read your first post.

I don't think I'd have got it out if a big hammer wouldn't do it. :oops:


You'd be in good company! :lol: I've seen people who should have known better beat them half to death first with a large "Percy Wader" ::b

Col's method is elegant. Proper engineering job. :thumbright:



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 Post subject: Re: Removing gib key.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:09 pm 
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Dave54 wrote:
ayjay wrote:
Retired wrote:

I bet many members haven't heard of a gib key. :scratch:



This one hadn't, but I googled it before I continued to read your first post.

I don't think I'd have got it out if a big hammer wouldn't do it. :oops:


You'd be in good company! :lol: I've seen people who should have known better beat them half to death first with a large "Percy Wader" ::b

Col's method is elegant. Proper engineering job. :thumbright:


I've got big hammers. :mrgreen:

I haven't got any welding equipment. :cb

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 Post subject: Re: Removing gib key.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:21 pm 
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ayjay wrote:

I've got big hammers. :mrgreen:

I haven't got any welding equipment. :cb


I've got both. . .
The hammers get most use! :huray:



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 Post subject: Re: Removing gib key.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:46 pm 
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Hi,

Thanks guys for your interesting replies. :salute:

Woodruff keys hold no fear for me DWD; they are usually a push fit and if a bit tight something sharp under one end usually pops the key out; even a gentle tap on one end usually rocks a woodruff key out; as you say though these gib keys really are something else and in a league of their own. I wouldn't recommend a novice welder owner to copy the old method I used though; it would be very easy to weld the fan or pulley to the shaft so a lot of care is required. 50 years since I last pulled a gib key; I wonder if I'll still be around to pull the next one. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Access to this gib key was very restricted making it more difficult to release but usually with a bit of thought and a great deal of restraint a solution can be found to most problems.

What fun indeed Dave54 making a stepped key is; fortunately I've seldom had to make such a key; one accurate method for those like me owning a lathe is to set the key up in the compound slide and simply mill the key to dimension but few would even know how to do this and many don't have lathe access; I enjoy playing around with this kind of problem; steel and cast iron are tough but reckless use of an hammer can make a mess of both; just a single ding on a shaft will give huge grief if installing a pulley; it pays to check for such damage and remove any such dings carefully with a file. This used to be standard practice and any older engineer was taught such things but these days who do we pass this knowledge onto? :scratch:

Kind regards, col.

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 Post subject: Re: Removing gib key.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 5:07 pm 
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Some small engines use a woodruff key in a taper shaft to hold on the flywheel generator. IIRC the BSA Bantam is like that (and I've got a puller here somewhere that screws into a threaded recess in the flywheel) I think Villiers engines have a similar arrangement, although it's been a long time since I worked on one of those, and not many times then.
Generally as you say Col, the key itself comes out of the shaft easily. . .



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