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 Post subject: Hand Planes
PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 9:40 pm 
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I'm writing my Christmas wish list, and think I would like a another Hand plane?, bought a vintage Stanley no 4 1/2 plane a while back and find it a nice piece of kit to use although somewhat heavy, what would your advice be for a second plane, I am a keen diy'er due for retirement in the next few years, and intend to spend a lot more time in my workshop (playing) as the Boss calls it, so would like to add a few more non power tools (toys) to my armoury while still earning.

Any/all advice greatly appreciated

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 Post subject: Re: Hand Planes
PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 10:07 pm 
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carboot sale are your freind :huray: :thumbright:

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 Post subject: Re: Hand Planes
PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 10:10 pm 
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:withstupid: or ebay



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 Post subject: Re: Hand Planes
PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 10:17 pm 
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Thanks BA never gave that a thought, bought my last plane from a company called tooltigue, all restored and ready for use?, blade needed a bit of work but otherwise not too bad. seems to be a massive amount of choice out there, do you have one/two planes that you tend to use more than any others?

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 Post subject: Re: Hand Planes
PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 10:21 pm 
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Blakey wrote:
I'm writing my Christmas wish list, and think I would like a another Hand plane?, bought a vintage Stanley no 4 1/2 plane a while back and find it a nice piece of kit to use although somewhat heavy, what would your advice be for a second plane, I am a keen diy'er due for retirement in the next few years, and intend to spend a lot more time in my workshop (playing) as the Boss calls it, so would like to add a few more non power tools (toys) to my armoury while still earning.

Any/all advice greatly appreciated


I'd say it has to be a nice little block plane.

I've got about five altogether now but I tend to favour the two smallest ones, (5-1/2").

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 Post subject: Re: Hand Planes
PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 10:31 pm 
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You already have a smoother - and a #4-1/2 has the size and heft to act as a small jack plane - so the next plane should probably be a low angle block plane. Stick with Stanley if you are buying secondhand and go for a plane with a blade adjuster and ideally an adjustable mouth (many of the Records I come across are standard angle and/or no mouth adjustment). That mouth makes little difference when planing end grain, but if you want to use a block plane to plane edges (e.g. chamfers, edges of doors, etc) you'll really see the benefit of an adjustable mouth. A good block plane will do 80% of the planing many DIYers would ever need. The one I'd recommend is a #60-1/2 - avoid the Record #060-1/2 because it is fairly crude in comparison and the extra width makes it far less comfortable to use IMHO. BTW the new ones (now catchily renumbered 5-12-060) are under £40, although they will require a bit of fettling

Attachment:
Stanley 60-1_2 Plane 001 01.JPG
Stanley 60-1_2 Plane 001 01.JPG [ 32.77 KiB | Viewed 1771 times ]


Edit: That's a #60-1/2 seen above

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OK, I'm an "old school" chippie, so please don't ask me to do a bodge job - I didn't bring my horse today and in any case you don't seem to have a hitching rail!



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 Post subject: Re: Hand Planes
PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 10:36 pm 
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yes a block plane and a rebate plane
dont do much handraulic nowadays :lol:
have shelves in the front room with a 2ft stilson and a few wooden planes spoke shaves and other well used tools :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Hand Planes
PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 10:58 pm 
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Thanks for all replies and advice, I bought the last plane second hand after reading a Paul Sellers article that said Old Stanley Bailey planes were better than the modern planes, unless you went for Veritas or Lie Nielsen etc, I do have a few veritas tools but don't think I could do justice to a veritas plane, I will have a look for a block plane and add to wish list.

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 Post subject: Re: Hand Planes
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 7:53 pm 
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If you don't want to push the boat out with a Veritas or L-N block (they are, after all circa £150 nowadays) then there are a few slightly lesser alternatives worth considering. Firstly there is Quangsheng, who have a low angle block plane in their range sold under their own name through Workshop Heaven (these are the mk.3 version, at £79.50)

Attachment:
Quangsheng mk.3 Low Angle Block Plane 001 01.JPG
Quangsheng mk.3 Low Angle Block Plane 001 01.JPG [ 26.18 KiB | Viewed 1680 times ]


and Rutlands (the mk.2 version, at £69.50).

Attachment:
Quangsheng mk.2 Low Angle Block Plane 001 01.JPG
Quangsheng mk.2 Low Angle Block Plane 001 01.JPG [ 20.11 KiB | Viewed 1680 times ]


There is also a better finished mk.3 version with a polished and plated knuckle lever cap (in place of the brass screw lock version) called a Wood River (at £84.95), available through Wood Workers Workhop.

Attachment:
Wood River mk.3 Low Angle Block Plane 001 01.png
Wood River mk.3 Low Angle Block Plane 001 01.png [ 142.45 KiB | Viewed 1680 times ]


That's the one I use on site. At the bottom of the price range is the von Berger (at £45.00) from Bill's Tools, which, unbelievably is also a mk.2 (so pretty much identical to Rutlands version) and is an absolute bargain.

Attachment:
von Berger mk.2 Low Angle Block Plane 001 01.JPG
von Berger mk.2 Low Angle Block Plane 001 01.JPG [ 25.01 KiB | Viewed 1680 times ]


These planes are actually all just variations on the same basic model from the same factory, admittedly in China, but they are pretty much ready to go out of the box (just a small amount of blade honing needed). They are all a huge improvement over the original Stanley planes with heavier, stress-relieved ductile iron castings (almost unbreakable if dropped on a hard surface, unlike cast iron) and fully machined blade beds. The irons are thicker than Stanley planes, too,and made from T10 water-hardening tool steel which holds a really good edge. The only downside to these planes (yother than price, of course) is that they are a tad too wide for some people. I have to admit that I prefer my old Veritas low angle block plane, but only just

Just thought I'd play devil's advocate and show you what is availlable in the new tool market. There are other choices as well.......

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OK, I'm an "old school" chippie, so please don't ask me to do a bodge job - I didn't bring my horse today and in any case you don't seem to have a hitching rail!



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 Post subject: Re: Hand Planes
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 11:34 pm 
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i have in my kit a stanley block plane, a faithfull low angle block plane, a stanley 4 1/2 plane and a stanley 5 1/2 plane. and a stanley rebate plane. all of them have their uses and i carry them all full time. the rebate plane is particularly usefull at times


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 Post subject: Re: Hand Planes
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 11:44 pm 
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I like Japanese saws and use this company.Jap chisels are pretty good to,not used the planes though,look fine though.

https://www.fine-tools.com/hobel.html


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 Post subject: Re: Hand Planes
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 7:29 pm 
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job and knock... i have a faithful low angle block plane. are these other block planes a signigicant improvement over the cheaper models like mine and the stanley ones? ive a normal angle stanley one in my box too.

might have to invest in one if they are haha


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 Post subject: Re: Hand Planes
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:17 pm 
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stevegrass777 wrote:
Jap chisels are pretty good to.....

I'm afraid I couldn't disagree more. Soimething like 35 years ago I was persuaded to buy a small set of Japanses chisels from Roger's Tools (he, later of VB lathe fame). They turned out to be complicated and time consuming to keep sharp, requiring water stones to sharpen them (and they in turn need to be maintained) together the learning of a whole new series of techniques such as hammering the edges (necessary to keep a hollow back face). In use they were a complete and utter disaster. They don't handle hardwoods all that well, even if reground to the appropriate angles, having a tendency to chipout with alarming regularity. Unless you really have the time to spend at least 30% of your time sharpening and maintaining your waterstones and chisels then they aren't for you. They certainly aren't suitable for most working joiners or carpenters and I'd have thought that for DIY they would be a complete faff. Theye were a fad which over the longer term few people (including pro cabinetmakers) have adopted and retained

As to the planes, the Kunz planes should be avoided like the plague. They are crudely made and quite frankly rather nasty, niotat all what you'd expect in a German product (and I've had a few, courtesy of having worked in West Germany - as it then was - recent examples I've seen haven't improved one bit). The Juuma planes that Dieter Schmid offer are made by the same factory - Quangsheng Luban - as the planes I detailed in my response above, so my comments apply equally to them

fin wrote:
i have a faithful low angle block plane. are these other block planes a signigicant improvement over the cheaper models like mine and the stanley ones? ive a normal angle stanley one in my box too.

They are certainly an improvement. Would you like to try one? I can loan you my Wood River for a few weeks if you'd like

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OK, I'm an "old school" chippie, so please don't ask me to do a bodge job - I didn't bring my horse today and in any case you don't seem to have a hitching rail!


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 Post subject: Re: Hand Planes
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:03 pm 
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Just got back from a short break and caught up on posts, thanks once again for all the info, I don't mind paying out for descent tools if I can do them justice, I am a very keen diy'er and take on most jobs around the house, normally after getting advice from this site, and I enjoy using hand tool as opposed to power tools when I can, I am watching a couple of Vintage Stanley 60 1/2 block planes on e-bay, would/should I appreciate the the difference between the old and the new Stanley/ Veritas/ Lie Nielsen etc, or once properly sharpened is there much of a difference?

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 Post subject: Re: Hand Planes
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:18 pm 
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Blakey wrote:
I am watching a couple of Vintage Stanley 60 1/2 block planes on e-bay, would/should I appreciate the the difference between the old and the new Stanley/ Veritas/ Lie Nielsen etc, or once properly sharpened is there much of a difference?

There are discernable differences. The 60-1/2 was a favourite of mine many years ago before the "modern makers" appeared. The small size makes it ideal to keep in a pouch or pocket and the narrow width means that even folk with small hands can hold it comfortably. In comparison the #65 I am currently using feels bigger and clumsier. The main things about the #60-1/2 design are that it has a blade adjuster, making it easier to adjust the cut than block planes which lack an adjuster and it has an adjustable throat. That feature is of little use when planing end grain but it means that when you are using the tool to plane with the grain very fine control over the shaving size can be maintained - if you are working with knotty timbers or rowed timbers such as sapele (where the grain changes direction all the time) you are far less likely to get tear out with a fine mouth opening and a finely set iron. The low bed angle (12°) makes it somewhat easier to use I find than the standard angle of the 9-1/2 block plane (25°) especially on softwoods.

The major differences between the original Stanley #60-1/2 and the Lie-Nielsen 60-1/2 and the Veritas low angle block plane are that the L-N and Veritas products have thicker castings which make them heaviewr, they are also pretty much shatterproof (if you drop them onto concrete) and the irons are thicker and of better quality than the later irons (post circa 1970). That latter comes at a price, though. Both those planes come with A2 steel irons which is tougher than the O1 tool steel traditionally used, but it is more difficult to sharpen them on conventional oilstones - they really need something like diamond hones or ceramic stones for anything approaching speedy sharpening. A2 steel holds an edge longer than O1 (the traditional steel used in Sheffield plane irons), especially when planing stuff like plywoods or MDF, but it's never really as absolutely sharp as O1. Veritas fortunately (IMHO) offer an O1 iron as an option for their block planes. The other issue is to do with the thicker irons those two employ - whilst it gives a smoother cut with less chatter when working awkward timbers it takes longer to sharpen a thicker iron than a thin one.

You can actually get a half way house with the #60-1/2 by replacing the original iron with a thicker O1 iron, such as those by English tool maker Ray Iles (sold by Workshop Heaven amongs others), but the original #60-1/2 with a sharp iron is a pretty good tool so I wouldn't go for a thicker iron unless my original one was ground to almost nohing.

A tip on storage: planes can and do go rusty if left unprotected between sessions so after use clean your planes, wipe over with an oily rag (soaked in something like sewing machine oil or 3-in-1 - NOT WD40) and wrap up for storage. You can buy plane socks, but for years I've cut off the bottoms of old jeans legs, sewed them shut at the top end to form a bag and converted the other end into a drawstring opening by cutting a hole in the bottom seam and threading a boot lace through. Mine are also lightly oiled

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OK, I'm an "old school" chippie, so please don't ask me to do a bodge job - I didn't bring my horse today and in any case you don't seem to have a hitching rail!



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