DIY Forum

 

Ultimate Handyman Ultimate Handyman Ultimate Handyman Ultimate Handyman

 

DIY Forum/Home improvement advice

 

 

A-Z CONTENTS | DISCLAIMER | DIRECTORY | DIY VIDEO | HOME | SAFETY FIRST | FORUM RULES

It is currently Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:00 am


Time zone: Europe/London [ DST ]




 

 


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:16 pm 
Offline
Newly registered Member

Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:21 am
Posts: 19
Location: London
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 0 times
I have a number of aurora low voltage adjustable downlights with MR16 halogen bulbs that I want to convert to mains voltage GU10 LED. I was unsure of how bright LED lamps are compared to halogen so I bought one GU10 LED bulb & bulb holder then fitted them into an existing downlight & I am very pleased with the result. What did occur to me though is that the light fitting is cast aluminum & is not earthed. Clearly not a problem with low voltage but these replacement lamps are mains powered. I have been assured by the retailer of the lampholder that an earth on the lamp body is not necessary because the lampholder is ceramic & the cable tails are double insulated. Is this correct?


Top
 Profile  
 

You may not be able to see the full post including pictures unless you register or log in

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:33 pm 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:03 pm
Posts: 2646
Has thanked: 0 times
Been thanked: 370 times
Anything that is double insulated does NOT require an earth.

Would it not be easier to buy a Image MR16 equivalent LED lamp (and driver) than to change all the light fittings?

_________________
Take it easy, its only a collection of opinions.

Metre or Meter?

Spelling? have you tried using Firefox and the dictionary "add on" it shows 95% of your spelling errors.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:54 pm 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 1:29 am
Posts: 3374
Has thanked: 225 times
Been thanked: 303 times
I think the OP means remove the transformer and the MR16 bulb holder and replace it with a GU10 lampholder in the same fitting

_________________
Gone M.I.A.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:09 pm 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:03 pm
Posts: 2646
Has thanked: 0 times
Been thanked: 370 times
scot-canuck wrote:
I think the OP means remove the transformer and the MR16 bulb holder and replace it with a GU10 lampholder in the same fitting


Could be, but still a lot of grief. (Jobs are never as simple as you think they will be)

_________________
Take it easy, its only a collection of opinions.

Metre or Meter?

Spelling? have you tried using Firefox and the dictionary "add on" it shows 95% of your spelling errors.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:59 pm 
Offline
Newly registered Member

Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:21 am
Posts: 19
Location: London
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 0 times
Thks to some-one else for confirming no earth required.

Scott, you are correct. I have removed original LV transformer & MR16 lamp holder from the existing down light then simply connected a new GU10 lamp holder to the mains.

I opted for replacing the existing LV halogen lamps with GU10 mains mainly on the basis of that it would involve less work. I have around 50 LV halogen down lights to convert & just connecting the mains to the new lamp holders would be a little quicker than connecting the mains to driver then the driver to the lamp holder. ( As I understand it the existing drivers for the LV halogen lamps are not suitable to run a LV LED, is that right?).

If there is any particular reason to recommend LV LED over mains LED, e.g performance or running cost, then I would be prepared to go the LV route

Thks for your help


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:25 pm 
Online
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 3:43 am
Posts: 1262
Location: North Wales
Has thanked: 38 times
Been thanked: 282 times
To start with 12 volt = extra low voltage and 230 volt = low voltage. I would agree once you move away from the quartz tungsten lamp there is very little advantage using extra low voltage except for the bathroom. However British rules require earths to be taken to the lamp even if not used at the lamp when using low voltage (230v) this rule came in around 1960 and has caused problems where people want to modify what they have. In real terms where double insulated (has double square) not needed but on an inspection it will be high lighted.

The extra low voltage of years ago used a simple transformer and with these swapping from 50W to 5W is not a problem. But then we started to use inverters which kept the voltage at the bulb spot on and these have a minimum output so need changing to use LED lamps.

Other than marking on the unit, the weight as inverters lighter than transformers and frequency there is little to identify which unit is which. At the lamp unlikely any DIY guy has a frequency counter and weight is not a guarantee so in real terms you need to read the writing. Marked 10 - 50va can't be used as LED under 10W but marked simple 50VA likely can be used.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:48 am 
Offline
Newly registered Member

Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:21 am
Posts: 19
Location: London
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 0 times
Thks for your response ericmark.

The wiring in my house is T&E so an earth exists at the light fitting but is terminated in the small junction box where the L & N from the primary of the ELV transformer are connected because obviously there is no requirement for an earth, nor does that component have the ability to be earthed.

My existing transformers are marked as 20-60W/VA so presumably not suited to LED.

The real issue here is that the body of the existing lamp (it’s an Aurora A2-DLL302) is die cast aluminum & without modification cannot be earthed, i.e. there is nowhere to physically attach an earth wire. Not an issue with ELV but I was concerned that by converting to 240v this could be a problem. However since my original post I have researched this & noticed that if you buy a purpose made 240v down light, like the Aurora AU-DLM355 it too is not earthed. The earth wire from the main lighting circuit terminates in the connection box on the lamp holder & the installation instructions specifically state that ‘’the main body of this Class 2 luminaire MUST NOT be connected to an earth terminal’’.
I am left wondering how that lamp body is protected from a short & can only think that earth is not necessary because the lamp holder itself is double insulated. That would suggest that converting my fittings from ELV to 240v would not be a problem provided the new lamp holders are double insulated. Would you agree or am I missing something?

BTW I have a new consumer unit with RCD protection on all circuits so this is a bit belt & braces but I would rather treat that as a safety net rather than my first line of defense if something goes wrong.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:01 pm 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:03 pm
Posts: 2646
Has thanked: 0 times
Been thanked: 370 times
It could be argued that changing a fitting from 12v to 230v is a bad idea since the fitting may not be designed to be changed. Also by changing the actual lamp holder some one could install a higher wattage lamp than the fitting was designed for.

Its your choice, but if it were me, I would change them all to the 12v LED equivalent and add LED drivers as required.

As a point of note, transformers are NOT suitable for LED's

_________________
Take it easy, its only a collection of opinions.

Metre or Meter?

Spelling? have you tried using Firefox and the dictionary "add on" it shows 95% of your spelling errors.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:45 am 
Offline
Newly registered Member

Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:21 am
Posts: 19
Location: London
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 0 times
Thanks to everybody for their help, I have the definitive answer from tech support at Aurora. They have told me that the conversion can be made safely provided I use a replacement lamp holder with a triple pole terminal block designed for 240V. The whole assembly is double insulated so no earth on the body of the lamp is required. Aurora sell them, part no is AU-BMV200 in case anyone else wants to do this conversion. Price direct from Aurora is £5.33 each but as usual you can get them much cheaper if you shop around online.
Thanks again


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 



Similar topics
   

Time zone: Europe/London [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


News News Site map Site map SitemapIndex SitemapIndex RSS Feed RSS Feed Channel list Channel list
ultimatehandyman privacy policy

Contact

 



phpBB SEO