DIY Forum

 

Ultimate HandymanUltimate Handyman on Pinterest

 

DIY Forum/Home improvement advice forum

 

 

A-Z CONTENTS | DISCLAIMER | DIY VIDEO | HOME | SAFETY FIRST | FORUM RULES

It is currently Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:29 am


Time zone: Europe/London




 

 


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:55 pm 
Offline
Newly registered Member

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:29 pm
Posts: 13
Has thanked: 22 times
Been thanked: 0 times
Hi everyone

A quick question for you DIY plumbing gurus.

I've got to sort out a leaking toilet, and I want to do it properly. Apologies for the bad picture - it was dark. Anyway, I had a professional surveyor look at it and he said it's the cistern that's leaking.
However, it seems to me to be coming from that large (supply? drain?) pipe from the back of the toilet. I circled it in red. It's quite a bad leak, I have to drain the tray often, and so time isn't on my side. That large pipe coming from the toilet seems to be sheathed by some sort of cover from the left, that's unless some part of this setup is actually a failed repair (I don't know - it's the first time I've seen it). Any ideas for diagnostics, solutions, etc. Many thanks


Attachments:
toilet leak.png
toilet leak.png [ 390.4 KiB | Viewed 331 times ]
Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on DiggShare on DeliciousShare on Google+
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:08 pm 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 5:51 pm
Posts: 8482
Location: Essex
Has thanked: 627 times
Been thanked: 1795 times
It is a common leak area. That end of the pan connector pipe is a series of baffles and it is a push fit into the soil pipe one end and a slip on to the toilet spigot the other. See https://www.marleyplumbinganddrainage.c ... onnectors/ 10th one down

Best to get a replacement, but you can silicone grease the existing and sometimes it reseals.

DWD

_________________
Painting with BIN



For this message the author dewaltdisney has received gratitude : Pagala
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:51 pm 
Offline
Newly registered Member

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:29 pm
Posts: 13
Has thanked: 22 times
Been thanked: 0 times
dewaltdisney wrote:
It is a common leak area. That end of the pan connector pipe is a series of baffles and it is a push fit into the soil pipe one end and a slip on to the toilet spigot the other. See https://www.marleyplumbinganddrainage.com/products/soil-systems/wc-connectors/ 10th one down

Best to get a replacement, but you can silicone grease the existing and sometimes it reseals.


:cheers:

Awesome response! I'm not going to try and seal it - it's going to be a replacement.
Are you sure it's a "Long Bent Connector" and not a straight extender, as per that list? If so, I'll just go ahead and buy. Do I need to take any measurements or are they reliably standardised? And I assume it's just slotted into the big pipe and can be pulled out by hand? Thanks again


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:43 am 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:03 pm
Posts: 8311
Has thanked: 39 times
Been thanked: 1415 times
Whatever you do, bear in mind it's a soil pipe, and gloves would be a good idea as well as some old (disposable) rags

_________________
Fret not, a forum is a collection of opinions. Above, are mine.

Which is correct? Metre or Meter? Click the link to find out more.

Working on anything electrical? have you got a multi meter? why not? Would you hit a nail with a shoe?

If gloom had a voice, it would be me. :mrgreen:

:idea1: How to post a picture on this forum Click here



For this message the author someone-else has received gratitude : Pagala
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:11 am 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 11:23 am
Posts: 774
Location: Dronfield
Has thanked: 225 times
Been thanked: 172 times
someone-else wrote:
Whatever you do, bear in mind it's a soil pipe, and gloves would be a good idea as well as some old (disposable) rags
And a mask if you have a gag reflex.

_________________
If the lessons of history teach us anything it is that nobody learns the lessons that history teaches us.



For this message the author Ktuludays has received gratitude : Pagala
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:40 am 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:49 pm
Posts: 24138
Location: hants/dorset border
Has thanked: 1509 times
Been thanked: 3840 times
Might just be the angle of the pic but looks like the waste pipe is running slightly uphill, in which case you always have a problem with that joint.

_________________
Verwood Handyman

Verwood Handyman


___________________________________________________________________

If you feel you have benefited from the Free advice given on the Forum, Please consider making a donation to UHM's Nominated charity, read all about it and donate here :

http://www.donnasdreamhouse.co.uk/



For this message the author wine~o has received gratitude : Pagala
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:55 pm 
Offline
Newly registered Member

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:29 pm
Posts: 13
Has thanked: 22 times
Been thanked: 0 times
wine~o wrote:
Might just be the angle of the pic but looks like the waste pipe is running slightly uphill, in which case you always have a problem with that joint.


Thanks wine~o. You are indeed correct - the waste pipe does run slightly uphill. I'm not sure what I can do about that.

Do you think I should get a plumber to reroute it? Or are there any other solutions. It does seem an awkward way for that pipe to run. I imagine it's more prone to blockages because of the L-shaped connector too.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:00 pm 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 5:51 pm
Posts: 8482
Location: Essex
Has thanked: 627 times
Been thanked: 1795 times
What is the left hand wall made of. Can you chop out a few mil to drop the pipe to level it out?

DWD

_________________
Painting with BIN


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:35 pm 
Offline
Newly registered Member

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:29 pm
Posts: 13
Has thanked: 22 times
Been thanked: 0 times
dewaltdisney wrote:
What is the left hand wall made of. Can you chop out a few mil to drop the pipe to level it out?


Not sure what it's made of but I'll pop in and check again tomorrow. Just to be sure, if the left-hand wall is plaster or hardboard, I can just sort of attack underneath it with a chisel and a hammer to create a suitably-sized recess, and then jump on or somehow batter the pipe downward to sit in that recess. Is that correct?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:01 pm 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 5:51 pm
Posts: 8482
Location: Essex
Has thanked: 627 times
Been thanked: 1795 times
I am not sure now after careful look at your photo. It looks like the pipe is connected to a stack pipe collar showing as the larger diameter ring at the wall. This will mean there probably isn't any wiggle room. Back to the beginning, it was obviously not leaking for a long time and a new connector will probably sort it. Water finds its own level and most will spill out into the main stack tough flow and suction and any residue will find a level of only a few mil.

DWD

_________________
Painting with BIN



For this message the author dewaltdisney has received gratitude : Pagala
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:30 pm 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:49 pm
Posts: 24138
Location: hants/dorset border
Has thanked: 1509 times
Been thanked: 3840 times
dewaltdisney wrote:
and any residue will find a level of only a few mil.

DWD


Sorry have to disagree, the cr4p will sit in the waste pipe and cause problems sooner or later.

Either the outlet (LHS) needs lowering or the pan itself needs lifting, say a shelf built with 3 x 2 and boarded over then tiled.

Minimum fall on the waste should be 1 in 40...

_________________
Verwood Handyman

Verwood Handyman


___________________________________________________________________

If you feel you have benefited from the Free advice given on the Forum, Please consider making a donation to UHM's Nominated charity, read all about it and donate here :

http://www.donnasdreamhouse.co.uk/



For this message the author wine~o has received gratitude : Pagala
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:00 pm 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 5:51 pm
Posts: 8482
Location: Essex
Has thanked: 627 times
Been thanked: 1795 times
I think the crap will be flushed as there are no snag points and the flush will carry it through. Yes there will be a bit of residual water but all the solids will go. If the toilet has blocked in the past then this might be so, but it is the drip from the baffles that is the current issue I feel.

DWD

_________________
Painting with BIN



For this message the author dewaltdisney has received gratitude : Pagala
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:58 pm 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:42 pm
Posts: 909
Has thanked: 212 times
Been thanked: 281 times
Well, nobody can really say for certain without trying it. I suppose replacing the pan connector is worth a punt and seeing how it goes, but I have to agree with wine~o that it's likely to suffer blocking. I certainly wouldn't want that pipework in my house!

4" can be very prone to blocking at the wrong incline. I had to replace a 3m section of soil pipe for someone last year because it kept blocking due to the fact that the fall (outside of the house) was far *too* great; if it's too steep the water runs off quicker than the cr*p and bog roll, which is then prone to collecting in the pipework, drying out, and forming little poo-and-paper-dams (don't ask me how I know this, it conjures memories I rather forget!). 1:40 is a target, not a minimum. And if too steep a fall can cause blockages... then a negative fall definitely can.

It does probably depend on the users though -- the house I'm referring to above had a couple of young kids who, I suspect, where prone to bunging arms-full of paper down the loo every time they used it, as kids often do. The OP may well get away with just replacing the pan connector if the loo has relatively light use.

_________________
Haste is the enemy of quality.



For this message the author chrrris has received gratitude : Pagala
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:56 pm 
Offline
Newly registered Member

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:29 pm
Posts: 13
Has thanked: 22 times
Been thanked: 0 times
Thanks for the input guys.

I don't know anything about plumbing and I don't know any plumbers, and trying to find a good one who will do good work for a reasonable price is a quagmire these days (as it has been for decades, as it's an unregulated industry). So I've been trying to work this out for myself, and from what I gather, this upward incline does indeed pose a challenge. Just thinking about pressure and velocity, in all toilets there is a toilet pan which is larger in diameter than the waste pipe. This means that there is an exchange of pressure for velocity at the point where the waste enters the waste pipe - the flush effect works on toilets to carry the waste out because the toilet itself is a sort of nozzle where the pan connects to the waste pipe, meaning there is a greater velocity of water throughput at that point.

In the case of the L-shaped connector in this instance, the portion where it connects with the toilet pan spigot is wide, and the part which connects with the (upward inclining) waste pipe is narrow. However, these details appear to pertain to the connecting points, and not the inner diameter, which (I'm guessing) remains at 4 inches at all points. Therefore the L-shape of the connector might not pose the difficulty in this case, and the effect on pressure and velocity of the L-shape kink could be discounted, but the upward-inclining waste pipe might, in fact have some kind of effect.

What is that effect? Well, I suppose there is increased pressure from the mass of the water that's in the upward-inclining waste pipe. Gravity, i.e. the pressure from the water in the bowl when it's in stasis, acts on both sides of the L-shaped pipe. The flush would still work but it would be weaker. However, the major question would be whether it would then leak at the join between the connector and the waste pipe. Obviously, it would, given that that's what has happened. The question is, how often would this leak repeat?

Wouldn't raising the toilet pan make this situation worse, rather than better, because there would be a V-shape between the immovable waste pipe and the point where it connects with the L-shaped connector?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:59 pm 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:42 pm
Posts: 909
Has thanked: 212 times
Been thanked: 281 times
With the pan connector off you should find that the pipe will have sufficient vertical movement for it to run straight up to the (raised) pan. It should be clipped to wall to stop it moving, using a couple of these:- https://www.screwfix.com/p/floplast-sp82g-pipe-clips-grey-5-pack/24755. For such a short horizontal run you don't need to be massively precise about the fall -- 1 in 40 is the ideal, but as long as it has a slight fall on it then you'll be great.

If you don't want to do it yourself (and there's no reason why you shouldn't DIY -- granted, it's not the most pleasant job in the world, but that particular job isn't complicated) then the best option is to ask a friend or family member to recommend someone (someone they've had in to do actual work, not "oh, my mate's a plumber he'll do it for you"). I think the vast majority of tradespeople are honest and competent, shows like Rogue Traders paint a misleadingly grim picture. For every dodgy person you see on TV there are probably 100 people who just want to do a decent job for a decent wage.

_________________
Haste is the enemy of quality.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 

 

 




Similar topics
   

Time zone: Europe/London


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Visit Solent plastics


 

 

 

News News Site map Site map SitemapIndex SitemapIndex RSS Feed RSS Feed Channel list Channel list
ultimatehandyman privacy policy

Contact

 

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group

phpBB SEO