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 Post subject: The Diesel Debate
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:37 pm 
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I am wondering where the hell this Diesel issue is going? Christ, a simpleton would have known that diesel engines are polluters but under Labour we were encouraged into diesel cars to cut the C02 levels to EEC requirements. Over the last 15 years or so the use of diesels has grown tremendously and now all the N0x pollution is being blamed on cars in the main but the main polluters are clearly their massive use in road haulage and trains.

The Government cannot just ban diesel cars and they cannot ban diesel transport either just like that. Ford were ahead of the game in that they have got their Ecoboost petrol engines that churn out 160PS from a 1500 lump so apart from doing about 10 miles a gallon less than the 2 litre diesel engines they are pretty clean and economical by comparison. But if diesels are banned in some cities the road transport system should refuse to deliver to those areas and it would soon make them capitulate.

There must be a fair and gradual withdrawal of diesel cars. All the bigger vehicles like Range Rovers and other 4WD's are diesel quite apart from all the Transits and other commercial and tradesmans vans. I am affected by this as I have a diesel and it concerns me in light of what I have been reading of late.

What are the thoughts on where this is going?

DWD

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 Post subject: Re: The Diesel Debate
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:14 pm 
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I think any new taxes or rulings will apply to new diesel vehicles only. There has been a lot of talk from diesel owners about boycotting those city centres that introduce fees and it would serve them right if they did. I'd be of the same attitude.

Of course .gov seek every opportunity and excuse to introduce new taxes but this particular issue will be very dodgy for any party to tackle directly given it was .gov advice that brought about the diesel revolution (in purchasing) so it's a hot potato to juggle.

What bothers me more is that the environmentalist brigade are seeking every possible reason and cause to demand change (inevitably to brought about by tax grabs :roll: ) from what would essentially be considered non-causes if the facts weren't exaggerated out of all proportion - or they were forbidden to use 'statistics' to prove a point :roll: And if that wasn't bad enough, those environmentalists will probably be receiving taxpayers money to research their cause - we're being made to pay for research into creating more taxes (that will be used by other self-interest groups) to grab more taxes ::b

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 Post subject: Re: The Diesel Debate
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:54 pm 
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This thread looks suspiciously like another 'Front' in the 'war' on CO2 reduction and ACC, thinly disguized as Vehicle maintenance & Repair.



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 Post subject: Re: The Diesel Debate
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:11 pm 
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Well it isn't, it is a genuine concern from me as I have a year old diesel car.

DWD

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 Post subject: Re: The Diesel Debate
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 3:25 pm 
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Hi,

Bron and I too bought a diesel car DWD; we bought our 2.0L diesel Yeti in July last year. For years the government has been calling petrol cars and encouraging motorists to go the diesel car route; so now there are lots of diesel cars being driven; the government also priced diesel cheaper than petrol but now as usual with the government we suffer an about turn and diesel cars are now the enemy; in ten years are we going to go full circle and diesel will be in again.

One way to help ourselves is to keep our diesel cars; normally Bron and I trade our car in for another new car when our car is three years old but we are now considering keeping the Yeti; the Yeti is a brilliant car and we would like another new one in two years time but if we buy diesel again we'll feel victimized by the government? When the Skoda dealership start pestering us to buy another new car we can say sorry not bothered because we don't trust the government; this is the first diesel car we've owned and we love it. Now we own a diesel car is it going to plummet in value at trade in?

Electric cars are now being declared the way to go but at what cost; the electric cars cost a lot of money and who are the government kidding; electricity needs to be generated; now we've got giant windmills popping up like mushrooms these being called wind farms; it's a heck of a lot of money to pay out to have one of these turbines standing idle because there is no wind?

Where are all the petrol trains and articulated lorries; surely the time will come when the motorists rise up and say enough is enough we are fed up of all the taxes imposed upon us by the government. We trade our car in at three years old and buy another new car; this supports the manufacturing chain ensuring thousands are kept in full time employment; the government do absolutely nothing other than to slap a big tax on car buying then once the car is bought the government are forever dipping into our pockets whether it's tax on fuel; insurance or over the last few years placing speed cameras where most revenue can be collected; motorists are now criminals in the UK; cars are now virtually banned from town centers so up go the shutters on the stores and the local councils simply can't get their head round why so many stores are closing; bus gates introduced in Huddersfield again deterring car owners from visiting the town center. Few parking spaces but an army of traffic wardens so yet more fines; it's much better for a council to pay the army of traffic wardens than to actually sort out decent parking places and encourage motorists to visit towns. Bron and I haven't been to Huddersfield town centre to do any shopping since Meadowhall opened about 25 years ago also we frequent the many retail parks where there is ample free parking.

Our council like so many other councils can afford to install lots of traffic calming measures and endless "Slow" signs which drive me mad but are unable to maintain roads; our Huddersfield council are even now saying they might not be able to afford to empty our wheelie bins?

How many burglars end up in court? Plenty motorists do but now to save on court time drivers are slapped with an immediate fine if they sneeze whilst in control of a car; I believe a young lasdy was fined for eating a banana whilst stationary in her car at red traffic lights; motorists are an easy target for fines.

Enough of this but I wonder what the next fines will be introduced for against the motorist? :pukeleft: :pukeleft: :pukeleft:

Kind regards, Col.

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 Post subject: Re: The Diesel Debate
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 4:52 pm 
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Col - your frustrations are quite obviously shared by a vast majority of car owners - shop owners too if I was to be any judge.

But, as ever, Government put a finger to the wind when they contemplate taxation measures and aren't stupid enough to push so hard as to feel a genuine backlash - as they most likely will if they attack existing diesel owners. NEW owners are 'fair game' but even the manufacturers will have something to say about that - car sales are atrocious enough without additional taxation restrictions.

IMHO the only true way to treat all motorists equally is to abandon all of the various motoring taxation regimes and put it ALL on the fuel. Those that drive the most pay the most; avoiding the VED and 'taxing' emissions are then covered and unavoidable by anyone - what can be fairer than that?

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 Post subject: Re: The Diesel Debate
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 9:09 pm 
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UK car sales at record high in 2016


The number of new cars sold in the UK hit an all-time high in 2016.
The Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT), said 2.69 million cars were registered last year, 2% higher than in 2015.
The industry body said 2016's growth was due to "very strong" consumer confidence, low-interest finance deals and the launch of several new models.
BUT ....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38516247


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 Post subject: Re: The Diesel Debate
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:48 pm 
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kellys_eye wrote:

IMHO the only true way to treat all motorists equally is to abandon all of the various motoring taxation regimes and put it ALL on the fuel. Those that drive the most pay the most; avoiding the VED and 'taxing' emissions are then covered and unavoidable by anyone - what can be fairer than that?


I'd almost agree with that except that it would put our haulage industry under even more strain... unless the same approach was employed all over europe. (unlikely)

If applied just to the non-haulage side then it would work, and also "punish" the heavy footed drivers.

When I drive the Mrs. car I regularly get 40 ish MPG; when she drives she gets 32/33 MPG ? And I'm not a doddery old git before you say anything.

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 Post subject: Re: The Diesel Debate
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:12 pm 
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I've just checked the HGV tax rates and they pay less that I do for my car :shock: :cussing: What a rip-off :angryfire:

Obviously the idea of an all-in tax on fuel needs some adjustment but the basis is sound imho.

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 Post subject: Re: The Diesel Debate
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:32 pm 
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Reading today it seems to be aimed at older diesel cars, presumably newer cars are lower NOx emitters as they conform to Euro 6 which was brought in in 2015. NOx levels were only set for diesel cars in Euro 3 which started in 2000 and it has gradually been brought down as the levels have reduced in Euro4, 5 and now 6.

Presumably the cars pre 2000 are the worst NOx polluters but many of these cars have reached the end of their life now. Post 2005 vehicles have a similar NOx output to current vehicles so I would think the vehicles at risk to scrappage would be pre 2005 cars.

But as I see it road haulage is the biggest issue and there is not a lot of information on the big diesels.

DWD

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 Post subject: Re: The Diesel Debate
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:35 pm 
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That's me f3cked then... I only bought my 1999 2L diesel estate 2 months ago...

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 Post subject: Re: The Diesel Debate
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:56 pm 
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wine~o wrote:
That's me f3cked then... I only bought my 1999 2L diesel estate 2 months ago...

May it pollute for many years to come! :thumbright:



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 Post subject: Re: The Diesel Debate
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:52 pm 
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You may get more than you paid for it in scrappage Wino :lol:

DWD

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 Post subject: Re: The Diesel Debate
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:57 pm 
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dewaltdisney wrote:
You may get more than you paid for it in scrappage Wino :lol:

DWD


Only against a brand new car though... and that isn't an option...

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 Post subject: Re: The Diesel Debate
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:21 pm 
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Don't worry it will go all French one day and end up in a cloud of smoke

pre euro 4 cars now attract a £10 surcharge per day for the congestion charge, the new euro 7 engines that are coming in this year are so heavenly restricted with things like urea injection, duel cat's as well as the dpf what will put the new car prices up

dpf have been around since 2010 anything less then 16k miles a year and you maybe looking at regen or dpf replacement costs


I have always had petrol engines as I don't do the miles I have gone from a 2009 nissan 1.6 110bhp to a 2014 GM/Vauxhall 1.4 turbo 138bhp and my mpg has gone up 20-30% it a its a bigger car as well


tbh if the government wanted to kill off diesel passenger cars - up the tax and fuel duty


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