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 Post subject: Telephone Wiring
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:09 am 
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I have a question regarding (old) telephone wiring, detailed in the attached document if anyone can help?
Much appreciated.


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 Post subject: Re: Telephone Wiring
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:28 am 
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I'll move this to the relevant forum in a mo.


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 Post subject: Re: Telephone Wiring
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:29 am 
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Hi Darwin,
What you have there is what is known as an NTE(Network terminating Equipment) 5(A has a socket on the detatchable front plate, B doesn't.) I can see some corrosion on one of the screw terminals, so it has probably been subject to damp in the past, and may well have gone faulty putting a loop(or partial short) across the line which would give you busy tone/NR. (Not ringing)
Your TP(Telecoms provider)have responsibility up to and including this socket, so if it is faulty then they will fix it free of charge. Anything connected to the detatchable front plate is deemed your responsibility. Detatch the front plate, and plug your phone in to the (secret) socket that will be revealed. This will isolate the rest of your wiring(if any) from the master socket(NTE). If you still have trouble then your TP SHOULD fix it for free.
You can prove the socket in your PDF by disconnecting it, and calling your number. If you get ring tone in the earpeice of the calling phone then the loop has gone, thus proving the socket faulty.
Alternatively ,if you have a meter, try measuring the line voltage. Normally it should be around 50-55 volts. If it is VERY much lower(less than 20) then there is a loop somewhere. Now measure the line with the socket disconnected. If the voltage is now correct then the socket has gone short.Be careful though, because if a call comes in then you will get 75 volts AC ringing, which bites!
It MIGHT be the cable, although it looks like the new style of lead in, so hopefully won't have gone faulty yet. The latest cable has reverted to the "old" colours that used to be used with dial phones, but the "old" cable was much thinner.

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 Post subject: Re: Telephone Wiring
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:55 am 
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OK, thanks Tim
So what I have here is not what is commonly termed, a master socket then?

I have already detached the front plate - there is no secret socket.
BT have informed me that any further work/ testing will cost me £120.
With everything disconnected I get the engaged tone.

I don't understand what you mean by "The cable has the "old" colours that used to be used with dial phones, but the "old" cable was much thinner" - does that mean this cable is the 'old' cable then, or not?!


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 Post subject: Re: Telephone Wiring
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:28 am 
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Hi Darwin,
Yes it is your master socket. They should not charge you to fix it, and it should be done at their cost. THIS IS WHAT YOUR LINE RENTAL IS FOR.
There are two screws on the front of your socket, which hold a plate onto the front. (NOT the ones that secure it to the back box)This is actually a socket to connect extensions, and if you remove it there is a socket that the front part plugs into. I don't think there is any point in you renewing the socket as the symptoms you describe tend to point in the direction of a faulty lead-in cable.
Reviewing the picture , I would think you do have the old (1970's) cable, which may well be faulty if it has been run outside all this time. Point out to your TP that they have had their money's worth!
If you are feeling brave and you can get to your connection box safely, then take your phone and socket up there, and trace your line back , disconnect the line to YOUR house and try your phone on the incoming line. If it works then bo****k BT.
If you dial 17070 , the line should return your phone number(unless you pay to have it permanently witheld) so you can check you are on the correct line.If you have the master socket up there, then you can do a ringback test too.

In the olden days, internal cable had Blue ,brown, green and orange. Then the colours changed to Blue/white( and white/blue), orange/ white( and white orange) , green white etc. They have now reverted back to the original colours. I don't know why!

If you still get engaged tone with the master socket disconnected, then it is most definately their responsibility, as the fault MUST be with their equipment or lead-in wiring they are responsible for.


(BT engineer 23 years)

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 Post subject: Re: Telephone Wiring
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:39 am 
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That's great, thanks a lot Tim. I'll give it a go.
If I DID want to wire up a new box - just to rule that out (or in!) as the fault - how would I wire it up as the new NTE5 don't have terminals I beleive?


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 Post subject: Re: Telephone Wiring
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:40 pm 
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If your new NTE new doesn't have screws, it will probably have IDC connectors(Insulation Displacement Connectors if you want to Google them........;-) ) that cut the insulation and bite slightly into the wires to make a connection. If you want to connect these then DONT strip the wires, but lay them into the slot and push home with an special tool or old credit/loyalty/store card. DON'T use a screwdriver as it will bend the contacts apart and cause unreliability. Since there is some evidence of damp on your NTE it might be worth asking the engineer to replace your socket too while they are at it.
Some NTEs have three terminals, you only need to use A&B. Polarity is unimportant.
Good luck with BT. They have to give you the worst case scenario so you can't say"Nobody told me there would be a charge", and unfortunately very few of the fault handlers are technically trained.

You can try an "ordinary" master socket, just to prove the fault.

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 Post subject: Re: Telephone Wiring
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:02 pm 
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Sorry to be a pain Tim but ...

To which IDC connectors do my 4 wires go? The IDC connectors are numbered.
eg Orange wire to IDC 2
Blue wire to IDC 5
And do I NOT connect the green & brown?


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 Post subject: Re: Telephone Wiring
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:47 pm 
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Quote:
eg Orange wire to IDC 2
Blue wire to IDC 5


If you have a "standard" master socket then yes, you are right. You only need two wires coming in, as the master socket will filter and output the ringing to the telephone(and subsequent extentions on pin 3). If you only have one phone you wont have to worry about it!

Every NTE5 I have seen has an A&B.

Good luck!

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For this message the author Timllfixit has received gratitude : darwin
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