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 Post subject: Skirting scribe
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:58 pm 
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Ripping out some old skirting today and noticed this. Never seen it before. Great craftsmanship. Wouldn't like to guess how long it took them! Have cut a set and put in the van I thought it was that cool

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 Post subject: Re: Skirting scribe
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:14 pm 
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takes about 2 to 5 mins on a good day :lol:
mitre at 45%
highlight with a pencil
use a fret saw on the curves and steps
use a handsaw on the strait bits

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 Post subject: Re: Skirting scribe
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:57 pm 
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Think you're missing the housing joint combined into it!


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 Post subject: Re: Skirting scribe
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:18 pm 
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wonder what the idea off the housing is for :dunno:
with wood shrinking across the grain a housing could hold it off the wall with shrinkage or i suppose the housing is designed to hold it even tighter iff it swells slightly :scratch:

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 Post subject: Re: Skirting scribe
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:22 pm 
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I don't suppose the grounds were dovetailed together on the external corners were they?

(I have actually seen that).

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 Post subject: Re: Skirting scribe
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:29 pm 
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ayjay wrote:
I don't suppose the grounds were dovetailed together on the external corners were they?

(I have actually seen that).


I’ve seen this several times ayjay,always on large stately homes or buildings tho.
As an apprentice fitting grounds was a horrible job,I hated it as it always seemed I did this job in winter,on a cold wet concrete floor :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Skirting scribe
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:48 pm 
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steviejoiner74 wrote:
ayjay wrote:
I don't suppose the grounds were dovetailed together on the external corners were they?

(I have actually seen that).


I’ve seen this several times ayjay,always on large stately homes or buildings tho.


Yeah, this was quite a nice old house in Hadley Wood, it's fairly posh there.

Something I saw in a terrace of Victorian houses in Swanage was all of the ceiling joists lap dovetailed into the side of the roof rafters. (Labour has always been too cheap imo)!

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 Post subject: Re: Skirting scribe
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:28 am 
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ive never yet come across timber grounds.....

only plugs and skirts nailed direct to those. ya can see sometimes how the skirtings must have been attached and then plastering done i suppose.

its weird how stuff is done different in different parts of the country.

would love to see some cool old stuff like you guys are on about though.



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 Post subject: Re: Skirting scribe
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:38 pm 
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ayjay wrote:
steviejoiner74 wrote:
ayjay wrote:
I don't suppose the grounds were dovetailed together on the external corners were they?

(I have actually seen that).


I’ve seen this several times ayjay,always on large stately homes or buildings tho.


Yeah, this was quite a nice old house in Hadley Wood, it's fairly posh there.

Something I saw in a terrace of Victorian houses in Swanage was all of the ceiling joists lap dovetailed into the side of the roof rafters. (Labour has always been too cheap imo)!


I've seen studwork walls mortice and tenoned together, with the chippie's names from the 1930s still on it.
A lot of stuff used to be beautifully made though. A mate had a cottage with lovely old ledge and brace doors. Random width, pitch pine boards, all staff beaded. bevel on the edges of the ledge and braces. Brace notched into the ledges. Hand made nails clenched over, and hand made ironmongery.



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 Post subject: Re: Skirting scribe
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:27 pm 
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fin wrote:
ive never yet come across timber grounds.....

You tend to only see them on posh houses or public buildings, banks, etc built prior to WWI (OK, I know they were used later than that in some places), so if your work is mainly domestic or on buildings later than 1930 you'd rarely if ever have seen them. My Victorian terrace house has skirtings nailed into timber wedges, so not posh at all. I've made them up a few times on refurbs - they give the plasterer a margin to work to but woe betide any spread who can't work to the grounds! (and there were always one or two)

Dave54 wrote:
I've seen studwork walls mortice and tenoned together, with the chippie's names from the 1930s still on it.

I've come across it quite a few times in Victorian and Edwardian stuff (ex-banks, public buildings, etc) posting.php?mode=edit&f=17&p=753683where a semi-structural wall was being built. Seemed a damned shame to rip it out, TBH

Dave54 wrote:
A lot of stuff used to be beautifully made though. A mate had a cottage with lovely old ledge and brace doors. Random width, pitch pine boards, all staff beaded. bevel on the edges of the ledge and braces. Brace notched into the ledges. Hand made nails clenched over, and hand made ironmongery.

Probably says as much about the age of the item as anything else. The notching was to give extra strength, the nails were hand-made up until about 1900 or so (after which "French" nails then machine stamped cut clasps became really common - the price was so much less), clenching over nails was used until the introduction of machine-made woodscrews which held better than most nails and did away with the need for clenching-over. Doubtless in the future there will be those who hark back to the days of real beech biscuits and real wood veneered MDF (when all furniture is printed on a super-sized inkjet printer). It's all really just progress

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OK, I'm an "old school" chippie, so please don't ask me to do a bodge job - I didn't bring my horse today and in any case you don't seem to have a hitching rail!



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 Post subject: Re: Skirting scribe
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:52 pm 
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Job and Knock wrote:

Dave54 wrote:
A lot of stuff used to be beautifully made though. A mate had a cottage with lovely old ledge and brace doors. Random width, pitch pine boards, all staff beaded. bevel on the edges of the ledge and braces. Brace notched into the ledges. Hand made nails clenched over, and hand made ironmongery.

Probably says as much about the age of the item as anything else. The notching was to give extra strength, the nails were hand-made up until about 1900 or so (after which "French" nails then machine stamped cut clasps became really common - the price was so much less), clenching over nails was used until the introduction of machine-made woodscrews which held better than most nails and did away with the need for clenching-over. Doubtless in the future there will be those who hark back to the days of real beech biscuits and real wood veneered MDF (when all furniture is printed on a super-sized inkjet printer). It's all really just progress


You won't get much argument about progress off me. (Well not much anyway :-) )
Without progress, we'd all be sitting naked and cold, dark caves! :shock:
Think of all them poor nail mekkers up Cradley way, what was put out of wuk by them damn French nails though!


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 Post subject: Re: Skirting scribe
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:08 pm 
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TBH I think Cradley nail makers went the way of the world a bit before you or I were around! (although there were still several Hingleys hand forging chains in the area in the mid-1970s). On a big build a year or two back (Victorian refurb + new extensions, ex-bank) we found a lot of cut clasp nails, right up to 6in long, but very, very few wrought head nails (the earlier type of true hand made nail). That building went up in the 1860s and was extended in 1887. The cut clasps all seemed pretty uniform (in any given length) which tends to make me think that they were banged out by the thousand on some sort of stamping press - the way modern cut clasps are made (I've seen that done). They were in all sorts of lengths, though, from about 3/4in up the 6in monsters unlike the two or maybe three lengths you can get nowadaya for flooring, so they maybe (just) pre-dated the introduction of the round (French) wire nail. Where we found those in quantity was in woodwork done after the turn of the 20th century. There were very, very few ovals at all - but they only appeared in the 1930s, didn't they?

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OK, I'm an "old school" chippie, so please don't ask me to do a bodge job - I didn't bring my horse today and in any case you don't seem to have a hitching rail!


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 Post subject: Re: Skirting scribe
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:29 pm 
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Winter of 1980 I think it was, my late FIL and I were given permission by the executor, to take what we wanted from an old house in Cradley. There was a chain maker's shop and forge in the back garden. Quite a big one for a "one man" type place. I wish I'd taken photographs, but kids had been in and thrown stuff around in there. Looked like it had probably been in use pre-WWII.
Pity FIL is long gone in more ways than one. He was a good craftsman, but he also would have known who made what in the Lye and surrounding areas.

I can remember my dad getting quite excited about oval nails in the early 60s. He showed me some and explained how they were much better for some jobs than wire nails. I seem to remember that the ovals were quite a bit more expensive back then.

I kept some of the hand made wrought iron nails out of those cottages we renovated. I don't know how old parts of it were. The one part had a half round chimney going up the one wall. That alone apparently makes it old. But there were signs on the other wall that they had built up on existing cob. Who knows? I was going to frame the nails to go in the cottage. . .


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 Post subject: Re: Skirting scribe
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:05 pm 
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Dave54 wrote:
Hand made nails clenched over,


I had a friend (more of an acquaintance really) who worked at Air Traffic Control at Heathrow back in the 70s, to say he liked a drink was an understatement.

He jacked in the ATC (he might have been asked to go) and bought a hotel in the West of Ireland, he had a new sink fitted behind the bar by a local plumber. When we went for a visit, as we walked into the bar (all nicely made from Oak) there were four 4" nails hanging through and welted over on the public side where the plumber had fitted the sink. :shock:

I've got an old lock out in the garage which has a couple of interesting and pertinent features, I'm off out there soon and I'll take a piccy.

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 Post subject: Re: Skirting scribe
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:41 pm 
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a bit of proper craftsmanship, now its mitre it on the chop saw, a smidge of gripfill, slap it on the wall and a few nails with the nail gun, a bit of deccy mate to fill the gaps


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