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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:42 pm 
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Last edited by boxedin on Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Scrapyard buy
PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:44 pm 
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But it's all rusty!
I'll take it down the tip for you if you give me a fiver! :mrgreen: :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:55 pm 
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Thats not rust its patina!! 16.5 kilos it weighs, got to be worth £10 he wanted £15 for it !, its for the allotment to hold metal stuff for filing and drilling
Its got also got a screw missing like me


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:02 pm 
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:mrgreen: I had to try!
You've had a right bargain there! :thumbright:


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:17 pm 
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Its got a machine screw missing from one of the jaws not sure of size or where to get them doesn't affect it really I also need a couple of heavy nuts and bolts to bolt it down as it tips when the jaws open beyond a certain point I'll mount it to a piece of roof joist attached to my potting bench should be ok

Got 2 x 5litre cans of cuprinol fence treatment for £2.50 a can reduced from £10 at wilkos while I was at it so was quite pleased


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:25 pm 
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IIRC the last engineer's vice jaws I changed must have had Whitworth screws. I got some spare screws out of the stores, and Whit was mostly what we had. Although that would have been a Record brand vice.

There are Whit available on eBay. If it is that of course!



For this message the author Dave54 has received gratitude : boxedin
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:44 pm 
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Thanks Dave I'll take one of the others off and measure


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:34 pm 
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Very nice! A heavy vice is a workshop essential, I love my cast steel Woden.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:10 pm 
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Hi Rorschach yes its particularly hopeless on the allotment trying to file, cut metal or sharpen tools the workmates jaws are too soft for one thing

The history of Woden, Record and Paramo seem to be interlinked I understand
Paramo were made by J Paramore of Rotherham who used to make the castings for Record until the Record factory based in sheffield got bombed during WW11. THe government gave Paramore to take over production until the factory was repaired and they continued on production making tools in Rotherham and Sheffield until 2003 when went into liquidation
Woden were taken over by Record in 1961
http://wodentools.com/snjhhistory.html

The prices of these things seems to be going up as well


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:49 pm 
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That's really interesting as I just thought a vice is a vice is a vice. Mine is a really heavy Woden 186B/4 that I bought a couple of years ago at a boot sale for thirty quid - I didn't realise until tonight how old it could be.

Shortly after purchase I changed the engine oil on my 4x4 and dropped the vice in the bucket for a couple of weeks before I took the oil to the Household Waste tip. Then I pressure washed it, keep the screw lubricated, and it does sterling service bolted to a bench made of 4x2s I inherited from the previous owner of my house.

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I also have on my other bench a Record No.1, bought 20 years ago for no more than a fiver. Keep it clean & lubricated. Also Record & a Paramo carpenters vices, simply oiled them and fitted new wooden jaws - one hardwood & one softwood. Best tools I ever bought, all from boot sales.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:43 pm 
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Nice looking vice Arco

Paul Sellers view on woodwork vices he has three woden
https://paulsellers.com/2013/10/record- ... till-best/


This is the British standard paint reference for the Record Blue Paint
https://www.stationaryengineparts.com/B ... -Blue.html
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-x-150ml-Ma ... SwPe1UDMgj


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:18 pm 
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boxedin wrote:
The history of Woden, Record and Paramo seem to be interlinked I understand
Paramo were made by J Paramore of Rotherham who used to make the castings for Record until the Record factory based in sheffield got bombed during WW11. THe government gave Paramore to take over production until the factory was repaired and they continued on production making tools in Rotherham and Sheffield until 2003 when went into liquidation
Woden were taken over by Record in 1961

That's an interesting take on it. I knew that F Parramore (not J, BTW) had been granted some of the production in WWII, but I understood that was because Woden, Parkinsons and Rededa had all been allocated other war work and the government needed to ensure that there was multiple sourcing in case Record were bombed again - Record had owned their own foundry from the early years of the 20th century so I can't really see them wanting to put-out foundry work to others. In any case it may only have been for for the woodworking vices and cramps as Parkinsons continued manufacturing engineering vices during WWII (including some really huge and very specialised ones). Parramore were originally manufacturers of cast-iron rain water gutters and pipes and also cast fire grates quite apart from their foundry producing general engineering castings. During WWII they also made shell cases. In the 1970s they purchased W H Clay who were a manufacturer of screwdrivers, awls, etc (they were almost certainly the last manufacturers of London-pattern screwdrivers in the UK) which then became their tool division. In 1981 the tool division was the subject of a management buy out from the foundry and broke away, setting up at Rockingham Street and Harrison Street in Rotherham, as Paramo Tools Limited. The foundry in Chapeltown, Sheffield continued until Fenner cancelled their orders and the receiver was called in, with the last castings being poured in June 1981. That foundry has long been demolished and is now a housing estate

The Woden link with Record was a family one - Record was originally C & J Hampton, two brothers who moved to Sheffield in 1898 from Wednesbury. They fell out and whilst Charles stayed in Sheffield, Joseph returned to Wednesbury in about 1900. When C & J Hampton became a private limited company in 1908, their premises were located at The Eagle Foundry, Livingston Road, Sheffield and it was at this address, one year later, that the Record trademark was registered in the Trademark Journal.

Woden, or to give it the full name, Steel Nut and Joseph Hampton Limited, was set-up by Joseph Hampton (senior) the father of the C & J Hampton of Record fame in 1868. Joseph Junior certainly applied for tool patents on behalf of the company between 1894 and 1898. Was there perhaps a family feud? Either way Woden Tools Ltd. was taken over by Record in early 1961, but the parent company (Steel Nut & Joseph Hampton Ltd.) continued with its iron and steel core products business until 1965 when it was acquired by F H Tomkins (Holdings) Ltd.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:38 pm 
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Sorry yes J&K its F there is a bit in this book which led me to think that was the story around why they took on the production temporarily of record vices

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=cjA ... td&f=false

I was looking at Parkinsons they seem to have been making vices about the same time but I can't see much mention of them they were made byJ Parkinson and Son Ltd shipley
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from ... e&_sacat=0


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:59 pm 
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I'm afraid that the book is American and is factually incorrect on a number of points (and I admit to having the relationship between the original Hamptons is possibly a bit wrong), but the take-over of Woden's tool division by Record in the 1960s I can back-up with documentary evidence (in the form of old Woden catalogues which are dated). However, the assertion that Record were the only vice manufacturers is bunkum - at the beginning of WWII there were at least 8 in the UK (probably a lot more, in fact): Parkinson (Shipley), Rededa (Sheffield), Record (Sheffield), Woden (Wednesbury), Ross, Marples (Sheffield - only woodworking products), Alex. Mathieson (Glasgow), Parry & Bott (Birmingham - later part of Rabone Chesterman) and Wadkin (Leicester) - the latter making a "knock-off" copy of the Emmert patternmaker's vice, although that may or may not have actually been made by Rededa under contract as Redededa supplied Wadkin with a range of woodworking and metalworking vices as well as G-cramps and sash cramps of their own design. I have also seen vices with the name and logo of "Whites of Paisley" cast into them which allegedly date from the late pre-war period. When industry went onto war footing in 1941 different firms would have been allocated different tasks and some firms would have ceased their peacetime production altogether, but Record were not alone in being able to manufacture vices (although for a short period they were the only firm permitted to do so) and I presume that the decision to switch some production to Paramore must have been down to a factor such as spare foundry capacity, especially as Record took over the manufacture of a number of Stanley plane designs for the duration due to Stanley Works UK (formerly Chapman's of Sheffield) being employed on other work during the war (so Record gained a number of tools in that which were originally not their designs). The other issue is the book is Record's address - the Eagle Foundry - which indicates that they were founders in their own right. So why would they need Paramore as their foundry unless directed by the Ministry of Supply to divert production there?

For a bit of extra history, there's a good site on Parkinson's history and products here whilst a brief history of Woden's can be found here. There's a bit aboiut Redada on UHM, here

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:28 am 
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Hi J&K thanks for the update on the history and the links to the websites all very interesting I hadn't heard of Redada.


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