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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:30 pm 
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Hey folks,

We are in the midst of this loft conversion and I wanted to know what everyone's thoughts are running rad pipes to 2 radiators ideally avoiding them going under the floor, I was planning on using 15mm pipe.
The walls are to have 100mm + 25mm of insulation with gyproc on top total. This is on 25mm battens to create a cavity against the original upstairs stone walls.

I want to be a bit forewarned before talking to plumbers so far as routing the pipes.
Could the pipes go between the insulation layers via a notch?
If the 25mm battens are assumed vertical then running pipe plus pipe insulation would be very difficult due to space.
space is at a premium so I don't really want to increase the wall cavity!

Any feedback appreciated!


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Last edited by strath44 on Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:53 pm 
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Which walls are they going to be located on? Presumably the gable end? If they are on the rafter walls then they can be run in the void in the eaves easy enough.
Tbh they are better running under the floor and popping up in the desired location.



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:04 pm 
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Sorry really poor description I'll try and add a photo unfortunately I don't think we have the eaves void as you describe it as our rafters terminate in the wall top.
The radiators are both on the lower rafter walls.
I do like the idea of the Euro style pipe work with the pipes outlet coming through the wall rather than out the floor.
Also the floor has had a lot of work done to make the old joists good the thought of notching or drilling them is painful!



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:17 pm 
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Are you not having any sort of vertical wall under the rafters? Usually you need a partition running verticaly under the rafters for support and if nothing else for sockets/skirtings etc. A triangular junction between floor and wall isn’t the norm.
Could you post some of the architects drawings on here?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:25 pm 
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Thanks stevie sorry diabolical description we have the "dwarf" walls upstairs hence no triangular void.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:17 am 
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Looks like you have a fireplace at the gable, useful or not :dunno:


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:35 pm 
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We spotted yes was actually thinking about that last night the chimney has been rebuilt and that fire capped I was thinking about bricking it up with stone and lime as we can't have any of the stone exposed anyway.



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:54 pm 
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What we do in this situation is use 95x45mm and build frames with a tyvek breathable membrane on the back. Plumb and fit frames with 25mm gap allowing a gap from vertical stone walls and a route for pipes,cables etc to be routed. 95mm kingspan inbetween studs then vapour barrier,then 38mm insulated plasterboard fixed to studs. You can bring the pipework through the back of these frames,also the cabling for sockets.
You need to double up the common rafters where the veluxes have been fitted as well. The bridles/trimmers have been done but are attached to single rafters which is incorrect. They also need metal shoes as well.
I’m a bit concerned that no airgap is shown on drawings in the coomb area as well. Should have 50mm airflow on roof side as well.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:00 pm 
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Hi stevie thank you very much for that funnily enough I was wondering if 45x45 frame could be laid but 95x45 makes more sense I can't see BC or the architect having an issue with it based on other items but would need to check.

The lack of air gap between the sarking and insulation has been a bone of contention.

With a 50mm air gap BC wanted an air vent in every rafter bay (25 at roof base and then 12 toward ridge)
This would not only look ridiculous but in our highly exposed hill aspect would have been highly likely to leak. On top of that BC wanted 137.5mm of insulation over rafters significantly reducing inside space.
Therefore the spec you see was agreed.

You mention using breathable membrane, BC has added notes that we should ensure that a suitable vapour barrier is used and is well sealed which I get. Why do you use a breathable rather than a vapour barrier?

Re the veluxes the roofers were ok but the joiner was rubbish IMO. The rafters you mention show being doubled on the plans but we're not I don't know why but I intend to fix.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:09 pm 
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Breathable is on the cold side(side against the exterior wall) this lets any moisture escape and disperse. The vapour barrier goes on the warm side which is to prevent the build up of moisture within the wall and keep the room as airtight as possible.
I take it there is not a breathable membrane over the sarking then? If breathable felt like roofsheilf is used on top of the sarking it takes away any need for slate vents as the whole roof can breathe.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:36 pm 
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Drawings state Kingspan nilvent breathable membrane on top of sarking therefore no need for any roof vents..... this is what I used on my roof but as Stevie mentions I left a 50mm airgap below sarking....


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:13 pm 
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There was a big debate between the Architect and BC (building control) at the time I can't honestly remember why there was no gap decided upon but external advice was sought by both parties and this was what was decided.

When you see the gaps through the sarking (our house is circa 1850) you realise that the breathable membrane is sufficient.

We have also decided to remove the ceiling across the collar ties and run the ceiling right up to the ridge. A bit more work but will look better.


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