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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:12 pm 
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Good evening,

I have an old GPO (probably 1970's ish) junction box (with a single screw in the middle) in the kitchen that connects to a drop wire that comes in through the wall from the telephone pole outside.

There is a:

BLACK wire (not connected)
GREEN wire (not connected)
3 YELLOW wires (not connected)
WHITE wire (connected)
ORANGE wire (connected)

I have bought a Master Socket NTE5A.

Can I disconnect the wires from the old GPO junction box (the WHITE and ORANGE wires) and connect them to the [A] IDC terminal for WHITE and the [B] IDC terminal for ORANGE on the Master Socket NTE5A please?

I don't want to run an extension off of this.

Thanks in advance.

SHADO


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:34 pm 
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They should go to terminals 1 & 5

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:09 pm 
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Thanks for the reply someone-else, it is appreciated.

The Master Socket NTE5A only has IDC terminals A, B, 2, 3 & 5.
I couldn't get a definitive answer when searching the Internet but from what I have read it appears that the black drop cable coming into my property and directly into the old GPO junction box should go on the IDC terminals A (WHITE) and B (ORANGE).

Image

The GPO box above is I believe a 52A.

Image

This is the Master Socket NTE5A.

Thanks in advance.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:17 pm 
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someone-else wrote:
They should go to terminals 1 & 5
:oops:

sorry, that should be 2 and 5

and sorry that picture is too blurred for me to see any detail, but the terminals should be numbered.

The orange and white on the drop cable are the incoming, and the blue and white are the cables for your extensions.
If you have broadband the incoming should go on the top two terminals and the phone extensions (blue and white) on 2 & 5

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:52 am 
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Try A and B



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:06 am 
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Thank you someone-else and OnlyMe for the replies, it is appreciated.

I do have BT Broadband and Telephone.
On the GPO box (attached below) the terminals are not numbered!

Image

The ORANGE and WHITE are attached to the GPO box from the BLACK drop cable that is coming in (on the left of the picture above).
There will be no extensions (at present) coming off of the Master Socket NTE5A.
I have an extension lead that will go into the Master Socket NTE5A.
On the other end of the extension lead it plugs into an ASDL filter (ADSL Modem and Phone).

So with regard to your answers, am I correct in saying that the WHITE drop cable wire must go into the [A] IDC terminal, and the ORANGE drop cable wire must go into the [B] IDC terminal?

The BLUE and BLUE WHITE wires that you can see in the picture at the moment go to a Master Socket where the extension lead is plugged into. This is what I want to get rid of and have the Master Socket where the GPO box is and get rid of the GPO box altogether.

Thanks in advance.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:53 am 
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Yes in is A and B, out is 2 and 5 if no bell required, can't remember off hand if 3 or 4 is for the bell.

The whole idea of new type master socket is you as user can disconnect all internal phones so you can test just the incoming line, or just the internal line.

In theory the master socket and all up to it belongs to openreach all after that belongs to you. So if you have a fault after the master socket you can be charged, but up to master it is down to provider to pay for repairs.

The master socket does two things, it has a spark gap and will reduce the risk of electric storms damaging your equipment, and it makes the bells ring. It has a capacitor inside that stores enough energy for up to 5 bells at 1 REN each, the bell is rung by reversing the polarity of incoming 50 volt line, and if the two wires are reversed then the bell will not work.

However personally I have not had a phone with a standard bell for years, with cordless phones and modems and routers it does not matter which way around the incomer is. I use to have an old phone I used to test correct way around, however today with broad band, phones may work, but broad band can fail or have reduced speed.

The latest box used by openreach has the filters for broad band built in, it is a pain in a way as you have no option as to where the router is located, possible there is no power near by.

So if you swap box not sure what happens if you get a fault in the future? neither do I know which is Pos and which is Neg of A and B.



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:44 am 
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Thanks for the reply and detailed explanation ericmark, it is very much appreciated,

ericmark wrote:
Yes, in is A and B, out is 2 and 5 if no bell required, can't remember off hand if 3 or 4 is for the bell.


On the extractable plate I have IDC terminals 2, 3 and 5, and it has a cylinder shaped piece which is the bell I believe on the NTE5A. The old Master Socket I am using doesn't doesn't appear to have the bell incorporated but the BT cordless phone I use still rings.

ericmark wrote:
The whole idea of new type master socket is you as user can disconnect all internal phones so you can test just the incoming line, or just the internal line.


Yes, I read this is the case. I did test the incoming line once by removing the extractable plate on the old Master Socket that is connected to the old GPO junction box and placing the extension lead in the test terminal. I will not have any extensions running from the new NTE5A at the moment.

ericmark wrote:
In theory the master socket and all up to it belongs to openreach, all after that belongs to you. So if you have a fault after the master socket you can be charged, but up to master it is down to provider to pay for repairs.


The reason I am doing this is because I had an accident at work 2 years ago and have been off since. I am awaiting another operation and I am only receiving UC payments so I really don't have the £129.95 they want to charge. I have had problems with my Broadband dropping out continuously and when I get a phone call on occasions there is so much static on the line that I and the person I am speaking to cannot hear each other. I have spoken to BT on numerous occasions over the last 2 years and I have had my line tested just as many times by them and they say that there is nothing wrong. I asked them to send me another ASDL filter (ADSL Modem and Phone) because it was about 5 years old in case it was that, but it wasn't. I have tried other telephones but the problem still persists. I even by passed the extension lead and plugged the ASDL filter in directly, but that didn't make a difference so I know it is not the extension lead. So as a last resort I thought it could only be the old GPO (probably 1970's ish) junction box.

ericmark wrote:
The master socket does two things, it has a spark gap and will reduce the risk of electric storms damaging your equipment, and it makes the bells ring. It has a capacitor inside that stores enough energy for up to 5 bells at 1 REN each, the bell is rung by reversing the polarity of incoming 50 volt line, and if the two wires are reversed then the bell will not work.


Thanks for the detailed explanation.

ericmark wrote:
However personally I have not had a phone with a standard bell for years, with cordless phones and modems and routers it does not matter which way around the incomer is. I use to have an old phone I used to test correct way around, however today with broad band, phones may work, but broad band can fail or have reduced speed.


I saw on a YouTube video when I was researching this that the WHITE wire was put on the (A) IDC terminal and the ORANGE wire was put on the (B) IDC terminal. There was a mention however that it didn't matter! I just want to get this 100% right in my head before I go ahead and do this!

ericmark wrote:
The latest box used by openreach has the filters for broad band built in, it is a pain in a way as you have no option as to where the router is located, possible there is no power near by.


The new Master Socket my Brother-in-law got me is a 2017 BT Telephone Master Socket NTE5A + Back Box Genuine Pressac for Openreach. In your opinion, will this be OK to do what I want?

This is the new NTE5A Master Socket.

Image

Thanks in advance.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:20 pm 
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I had the same sort of problem some time back. Very noisy line. Broadband didn't actually drop out but speed was weather dependant.
It was a badly made repair connection on a pole between here and the cabinet.
I had to keep on at them for some time to get a repair, as there was "nothing wrong" when they tested it.
It was still under the threat of having to pay if nothing was found. Luckily I've found most of the BT guys on the ground to be very helpful once you can actually get one.



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:18 pm 
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A is white
B is orange

2 is blue/white
3 is orange/white
5 is white/blue

Nte5A is a older master , Nte 5c is the latest and greatest with the mk4 face plate once you have one you do not need them microfilters (I haven't used them in 10-15 years), if you have a old router aka home hub ask BT for a new one, the early ones are terrible for dropping the line in poor conditions

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Openreach-Te ... Sw0cJbGrrX


To check your line dial 17070 and press 2 for a quite line test it should be crystal clear (no crackle or hiss) - it may tell you to clear down - all this means is hang up when your done

this test should be done with 1 phone connected to the test socket - no extentions



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:09 pm 
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Thanks for the reply Bob225, it is very much appreciated,

I am not going to be running any extensions so I assume that the below will do want I want.
Basically it is just a case of changing the old GPO junction box for the new NTE5A master socket and using the same two wires ONLY that were in the old GPO junction box.

This is what I am going to do tomorrow.

(01) Disconnect the WHITE and ORANGE wires from the old GPO junction box (as per the picture below).
(02) Unscrew and remove the old GPO junction box (as per the picture below).

Image

(03) Attach the back box (as per the picture below) where the old GPO junction box was.

Image

(04) Connect the WHITE incoming BT drop wire to IDC terminal A (as per the picture below).
(05) Connect the ORANGE incoming BT drop wire to IDC terminal B (as per the picture below).
(06) Cable tie the BLACK drop wire sleeve.

Image

(07) Screw the plate (as per the picture below) using the self tapping screws to the back box.

Image

(08) Insert and screw the front plate (as per the picture below) using the self tapping screws.

Image

(09) Insert the extension lead with the ASDL filter (ADSL Modem and Phone) at the other end of the extension lead.
(10) Job Done!

Is this correct or am I totally confused please?

Thanks in advance.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:20 pm 
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yes that's it !!



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:25 pm 
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As a point of note the drop cable is black as it is weather and UV proof.

BT will always say your cable is fine because they ask their computer to do a line test on it.
Their computer checks to see if it can see the components in your socket (phone socket not mains socket) if it can, it then says the line is ok. The problem is the computer can not "hear" so if you have a noisy line they still say its fine (Because the computer said so)

Its not unusual for a BT bod to come out to find out you really have plugged in the wrong phone, or not put batteries in your phone, etc, so they say if its your fault you will be charged, which is then understandable.

Even though you have the old style box, it can not be the cause of your problem since it is just a connection (Ok if it were loose then maybe, but you would have noticed if it were loose)

I think you are wasting your time changing the box, and if you must do it, make sure it has an open reach logo on it.

If I were you I would just call Openreach (again) and get them to listen from your line.

I will also say they are good, I once had a knock at the door and a Open reach bloke asked to check the phone (hmm....) so I did, and it was dead, turns out a major trunk cable had been severed and they were checking the damage.

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Which is correct? Metre or Meter? Click the link to find out more.

Working on anything electrical? have you got a multi meter? why not? Would you hit a nail with a shoe?

If gloom had a voice, it would be me. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:50 pm 
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Thanks for the reply someone-else,

someone-else wrote:
The problem is the computer can not "hear" so if you have a noisy line they still say its fine (Because the computer said so).
If I were you I would just call Openreach (again) and get them to listen from your line.
On the numerous occasions that I have telephoned BT, there have been many times that they have heard the noise/distortion on the line and they have had to ring me on my mobile in order to hear me.

someone-else wrote:
Its not unusual for a BT bod to come out to find out you really have plugged in the wrong phone, or not put batteries in your phone, etc, so they say if its your fault you will be charged, which is then understandable.
That's fair enough!

someone-else wrote:
Even though you have the old style box, it can not be the cause of your problem since it is just a connection (OK, if it were loose then maybe, but you would have noticed if it were loose).
I think you are wasting your time changing the box, and if you must do it, make sure it has an Open Reach logo on it.
The extension box that is at present (until tomorrow) connected to the GPO junction box is plain without any insignias on it, so replacing it with the NTE5A isn't going to be an issue.

I also want to tidy everything up as the previous owner was a bit of a cowboy and had wires going all over the place, an absolute nightmare!

Thanks again for the recommendations and insight, it is appreciated.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:45 pm 
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The cable from Openreach has a number of pairs, the pairs are twisted to match them, so in my case blue/white and white/blue are the pair used, but Openreach will use another pair if there is a problem so no real way to know if Orange/White and White/Orange or any other pair, but it will be a pair of twisted wires.



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