  
|
www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk Forum Index
-> Carpentry/Joinery Forum |
|
| Author |
Message |
Hoovie
Devon DIYer
Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 7776
Location: East Devon
|
 Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 7:28 pm Post subject: Repairing mangled up Door Handle fixings on Door |
  |
|
|
In my house I have a right mismatch of door furniture - some round brass knobs, some plastic knobs, some plastic handles, some bakelite handles - a right old mess  - and the locks themselves are pretty knacked as well generally (doors all have the lock fittinga with keys
So plan is to refresh the whole lot with new handles, locks and hinges, but keep the same doors (they are basic doors, but original '30s doors as far as I can tell.
Problem I have is as follows:
The lock cutout seems to be smaller (narrower) then any new locks I have bought. Also the lock position varies a bit - some doors are 52mm door edge to centre of lock, other doors are 56mm edge to lock centre.
couple of the doors have been mangled about - see pic below:
I need to refresh a total of 10 doors and with the cost of handles already not cheap, I could do without spending a load on specialist new locks and am hoping to just buy some basic locks (B&Q have a ERA trade pack of 5 for £35 which seems ok - toolstation have locks for £3!) so that kind of cost is my target.
So two questions:
1) how do I repair the areas in the doors to make it decent again? Given the new locks seem to all have the lock positions in a diferent location, I probaly need to make good all holes and cut out new ones?
2) How do I enlarge the width of the locks - and also the height? to allow a new lock to slide in?
_________________
If you have a son, DO NOT name him after a verb ....
"Neil, Standup. Neil, Standup"
"Which is it, man?" |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
|
|
|
Hitch
Senior Member
Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 2429
Location: Somerset
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 7:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
Didnt that sort of keyhole have a small swiveling cover originally?
I repaired a door for someone by drilling out the damage with a large forstner bit, then putting in a wooden plug that i turned to size on the lathe. Glue it in then plane off the excess. (it was a natural finish door) so filler would have looked terrible.
_________________
Why isn't the number 11 pronounced onety one? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hoovie
Devon DIYer
Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 7776
Location: East Devon
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 8:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
it sjould have had a escutchen (think that is what they are called) with a door knob - couple of the doors do so, others are just like this, and others have the door handle with the full sized plate that incorporates a keyhole (that is what I intend to fit on all doors).
Door will be painted, so filler and sanding down is acceptable, BUT just to clarify pic - and explain my issue a bit more maybe(?) the good wood you see inside the magabled hole is the other side of the door (lock is removed), so I have nothing to fill against 
_________________
If you have a son, DO NOT name him after a verb ....
"Neil, Standup. Neil, Standup"
"Which is it, man?" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hitch
Senior Member
Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 2429
Location: Somerset
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 8:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
I was thinking along these lines
http://www.leorec.co.uk/images/hkc6.JPG
Doesnt help you much though 
_________________
Why isn't the number 11 pronounced onety one? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hoovie
Devon DIYer
Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 7776
Location: East Devon
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 8:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
not really  thanks anyway 
 or 
This is the handle I am thinking of getting (with lock hole, without, dunno, don't really care) so it will cover up the keyhole and stuff, but I will still need to somehow repair this section as it won't cover it all 
_________________
If you have a son, DO NOT name him after a verb ....
"Neil, Standup. Neil, Standup"
"Which is it, man?" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
big-all
Pro Carpenter
Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 2658
Location: redhill surrey an auld reekie laddie
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 8:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
is the wood ok that dammage looks like the locks where fitted using an axe
why not get some furniture where the door plates on the handles are held on by the handle so dont need any fixing 
_________________
we are all ------------------still learning |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hoovie
Devon DIYer
Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 7776
Location: East Devon
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 8:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
That door IS the worst - they are not all like that (thank god!). The previous owners were not DIY types (thankfully, if this is their work quality).
I looks like that door has had about 3 different types of handle on it and the current one is falling off (for obvious reasons!)
I have searched the catalogs and shops for door handles and Mrs H (SWMBO) discounted just about all of them but we did manage to settle on these.
What I am thinking is that as the new lock won't be as deep depth-wise, I will be fitting into 'fresher' wood. (new lock I want to fit has lock 44mm in (it is a 64mm lock), whereas the current lock is 52mm in)
What about my 2nd problem, Big-All? any suggestions about how to enlarge the hole width (right now I could knock the new lock in if I hit it hard enough, so maybe 2-3mm wider?) and also the height (top to bottom) is about 4mm more
_________________
If you have a son, DO NOT name him after a verb ....
"Neil, Standup. Neil, Standup"
"Which is it, man?" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Teabag
Senior Member
Joined: 15 Dec 2007
Posts: 157
Location: Bedfordshire
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 9:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
Hey Hoovie,
you could use a sharpe chisel, or deep router cutter for a 1/2" router ...
if you have a router that is...
regards gaining the extra depth use spade bit say 10mm one and stagger the drilling so the new depths overlap each other, this is the easiest way .
if they were worse
if these doors are being painted you could use 2 part wood filler or car body repair piller. that would be strong enough to be re drilled if needed.
or if you prefer and have the use of a router, its pretty easy to select a piece of wood to fill the area, all you do is cut this piece to cover the area needed.draw around it on the door. then using the router, plunge into the door 1/4" (6mm, or to suit the wood you have) and machine very close to your lines. then chisel the corners out see if it fits, keep using chisel real carefull till it does. make sure the grain runs the same way, glue it in, then plane and sand to finish.
like wise you can, clean out the mortice for the lock, fill completly with timber a snug fit, do the came for the lock recessed plate, make sure the grain lines up. so it looks like you have a totally new door blank,
then rework the lock position as you see fit.
once you get the hang of it its very easy. just depends on your woodworking ability. some people are more tallented than others. if you make a nice job of the repairs people always comment on them. if not being painted.
hope that offers some help. may be theres other methods...
_________________
If you can't convince'm with arguments,
dazzle'm with bullshit
Last edited by Teabag on Sun Mar 09, 2008 9:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
big-all
Pro Carpenter
Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 2658
Location: redhill surrey an auld reekie laddie
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 9:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
your new locks are longer so they are desined for knob furniture[more clearence between door stop and fingers holding a knob  ]
you will probably have to bite the bullet and splice in a new bit off wood
it will need to start around 2 inches beyound the top and bottom of the lock
choose a bit of matching wood 3mm thicker than the thickness of the wood at the side off the lock
you can then use a router to clean out the area on the door
_________________
we are all ------------------still learning |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hoovie
Devon DIYer
Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 7776
Location: East Devon
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 9:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
Hi teabag,
hmm - not sure how to fill something without anything to fill against
But I am liking the idea of making up a lock-sized plug and gluing that back in to have a door blank ready to rework entirely - that will also give me a base to fill against to make the surface decent again before a remake the hole for the lock (I can imagine it is easier to make a hold for a lock assembly from scratch rather then trying to enlarge something a few mm)
Would that approach work?
I do have a router (but as yet not actually used it  ) - my wood working abilities? not a lot of experience past basic stuff, but I can follow instructions ok
Is there such a thing as a lock rebate template for routers?
_________________
If you have a son, DO NOT name him after a verb ....
"Neil, Standup. Neil, Standup"
"Which is it, man?" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hoovie
Devon DIYer
Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 7776
Location: East Devon
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 9:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| big-all wrote: |
your new locks are longer so they are desined for knob furniture[more clearence between door stop and fingers holding a knob ]
you will probably have to bite the bullet and splice in a new bit off wood
it will need to start around 2 inches beyound the top and bottom of the lock
choose a bit of matching wood 3mm thicker than the thickness of the wood at the side off the lock
you can then use a router to clean out the area on the door |
Thanks BA,
with the suggestions you guys are coming up with, I think I am getting a good idea of what I can do - really helpful Been looking at the door more a few minutes ago and I think it should be doable even for me!
And the good thing is that I would have to really screw up to make that particular one look worse
_________________
If you have a son, DO NOT name him after a verb ....
"Neil, Standup. Neil, Standup"
"Which is it, man?" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Teabag
Senior Member
Joined: 15 Dec 2007
Posts: 157
Location: Bedfordshire
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 9:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| Quote: |
| hmm - not sure how to fill something without anything to fill against |
stick sellotape on card...
place card against back of key hole sellotape side facing the hole to be filled. then pack behind card fill hole using 2 part filler...
this wont stick to sellotape..
mortice jigs...
yes m8 there is, but using the spade bit like i am about to discribe is much cheaper..
practice in a scrap bit of timber and youl see its easy.
example a 1/2" wide slot, however long...
mark out the mortice/slot to be cut. select the correect size spade bit.
if its an unusual size, then use smaller dia spade bit, use the following method but stagger them..
drill so the first hole is close to the line, only drill about 1/4" deep
do another with the drill point next to the edge of the first drilled hole, again 1/4" deep do this all along the section to be drilled.
then start again using ther same drilling points...
keep doing until the desired depth is reached.
make sence?
if needed just clean edges with a chisel
it works great and fast too... seems like its gonna be a long slow process but its not once you get going... dont drill deeper than 1/4" at a time or it will not stay as intended. because you are overlapping the drill into the next hole by nearly half and the small depth of cuts allows this to work.
make sence?
_________________
If you can't convince'm with arguments,
dazzle'm with bullshit |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
darkhorse
Member
Joined: 26 Feb 2008
Posts: 52
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
I agree with buying or making a suitable dowel/filler piece
Make it a nats smidgen oversize so that you get some purchase when you knock it in so it doesnt fly out of the other side
Also, it doesnt have to be 'perfect' for the keyhole blocking plug.
Several suitably sized pieces should do the job if you tap them in together and they fill the hole nice and tight.
Then you can do a couple of rounds of filler as required to get the correct height, and sand to suit... then test fit your new handle and lock, and paint the door before refitting the new stuff for real
I did exactly the same thing (a couple of wooden shaped dowels) to reuse a hardwood door that had a handle in the most stupid place so you broke your knuckles quite often when closing the door!
it was dark varnished so it took quite a bit of messing about and the colour match was 'barely' noticeable but in the end I bought a new handle assembly specifically to cover up as much of the filled part as possible (was impossible to get total invisblity with varnished finish). it worked too as only about 20% of the filled bit was left visible |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hoovie
Devon DIYer
Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 7776
Location: East Devon
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
Cheers,
I think all my doors have locks that were meant for handles, as they are closer to the edge then knobs should be (scuffed knuckles, etc  ).
So I know what I will be doing next weekend
another question - if I use a router to make the hole for the lock assembly, how do I keep it central in the door?
I am wondering about making up a "U" shaped template to drop over the sides of the door with a lock sized hole, clamp that in place and use that as a guide - would that work?
_________________
If you have a son, DO NOT name him after a verb ....
"Neil, Standup. Neil, Standup"
"Which is it, man?" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
chippymike
Senior Member
Joined: 28 Dec 2007
Posts: 213
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
hoovie i use the fence of my router set to the external size of the lock you have marked out on the door and cut to this line then walk around the other side of the door and cut to the line again with you'r router and then just router out any waste in the middle of the lock cut out that is left.
And so this makes sence the door would be placed in a door block, which is a piece of 4x2 on edge with a notch cut out 20mm bigger then the thickness of the door and a wedge cut and driven in so it hold you'r door at a sutiable working hight. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
