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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:08 pm 
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Hi all,

I am planning on having an alarm installed for the house this year (budget permitting :mrgreen: ) Having done a bit of research online shows that wireless alarms are susceptible to hackers who can catch the RF and disable the alarm.

However, I do understand that most houses currently prefer a wireless to wired.

Can the experts please advise.

I am looking for a cost effective bells only (with regards to installation and future service maintenance) but one that is not prone to hacks.

Should I go for wired instead ? What ones do you recommend ? I understand people go for wireless so as not to have cables running over your ceiling or skirting. How much would a robust one cost ? If wired is the more secure option , I could live with the non concealed cables in the house :scratch:

Many thanks.

Kind Regards,

new2diy


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:17 am 
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new2diy wrote:
Having done a bit of research online shows that wireless alarms are susceptible to hackers who can catch the RF and disable the alarm.


That is not strictly true.

They can not "disable" the alarm, but in theory they can "block" signals being received, how ever, modern up to date panels will recognise this and go into "jamming" mode. (What happens next depends if its set or not)

The main problem with radio alarms is the batteries. All devices have to have a battery. The batteries have a limited life (It can be up to 5 years) But most suggest they are changed bi-annually or even annually. If you change one, you should change them all. Not all, but quite a common battery is the 123 (that really is its number) currently they are £3 each, (heaven forbid its not a PP3 as the lithium ones are £8) now say you have 10 devices. 3 x 10 = £30 in two years time lets say its gone up to £35 so that is £75 you have spent on batteries. :cb Oh and you had to climb up to each device to change the battery, oh and move the sofa to get your ladder in.

Now if you have a wired alarm, (you can DIY it) you can with some thought hide the cables under the edge of carpets, or under the floor etc (Professional alarm companies will do this) and the only battery you ever need change in 5 years is the standby battery in the panel and it does not cost any where near the £75you would have spent on the radio alarm batteries.

Yes some will argue you can get cheaper batteries, but you want something reliable, and this is only my opinion, also if a radio alarm does go into "jamming mode" (it does happen) what will you do? you can't see what is causing the problem simply because you can't see radio waves so you have no idea what is causing the problem, a cable is easy to check.

At the end of the day, one thing is for sure, the price of batteries is never going to come down.

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No such thing as "Thou shalt put this wire here, Thou shalt put that wire there" .............Take a picture BEFORE you do the job.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:32 am 
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It really depends what the alarm is for, my sons alarm is connected to the central heating, setting the alarm when leaving house also reduces the room temperatures, it also does his garage, and it sends him alerts to his phone.

Step one I suppose is talk to the insurance company, they may giving a discount or fail to recognise certain types, my son found where he lived and it does vary area to area the alarm made no difference to insurance unless connected to a monitoring station.

For an alarm to be connected to a monitoring station it needs to be designed so it will only go off when there is a real intruder, going off because a battery went flat is not allowed, so the alarms is split into zones and every room has two sensors connected to different zones and two zones need activating before the call centre gets a call.

To be frank in this area it does very little good, the call centre calls the alarm insulation company who send out some one to correct the fault, by time he gets there any intruders have gone, so all he does is phone police who will likely get there an hour latter, son worked for an alarm installation company and they make their money on the annual fees, not fitting the alarm. They have to be members of schemes to be able to use call centres, who can call police, today really needs a camera to be any good, if alarm goes off and camera is not working it is assumed it is an intruder, without cameras fitted it is assumed it is a fault.

In the main installing an empty bell box does as much good as fitting the alarm. A few dummy cameras and PIR's and the prospective intruder selects another house. So unless the alarm will satisfy insurers then all it does is switch the central heating down when you leave the house. So really does not matter if wired or wireless they both in real terms do nothing. Well not quite, if your upstairs at night if some one brakes in scaring them off again is good, and absent of alarm noise means you can sleep soundly. However no real need to be wired or wireless, stand alone PIR's with built in sounder would do same job.

I have extruder alarms, they stop mother escaping, major problem was turning them off, this is what the entry box does for you, it allows you to turn off the alarm before it goes off, I actually use a remote controlled socket, OK alarm only on doors, mother is not going to escape in her wheel chair through the window, however because I use a remote controlled socket I can set times, so 930 pm it is set, and goes off again at 8:30 am, sets again at 9:30 am to midday, then on again 6:30 pm to 8:30 pm. This means I don't forget to set it, I can also manually set with push button on socket, three remote controls, smart phones or PC. Batteries removed from alarms so no mains no alarm. It works well, and yes all doors, bed and panic button all wireless.

What you have to do is decide what you want the alarm to do. Remember alarms don't stop any one, they only tell one after the event that something has happened, so empty bell box and dummy cameras likely just as good.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:49 pm 
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ericmark wrote:
It really depends what the alarm is for, my sons alarm is connected to the central heating, setting the alarm when leaving house also reduces the room temperatures, it also does his garage, and it sends him alerts to his phone.

Step one I suppose is talk to the insurance company, they may giving a discount or fail to recognise certain types, my son found where he lived and it does vary area to area the alarm made no difference to insurance unless connected to a monitoring station.

For an alarm to be connected to a monitoring station it needs to be designed so it will only go off when there is a real intruder, going off because a battery went flat is not allowed, so the alarms is split into zones and every room has two sensors connected to different zones and two zones need activating before the call centre gets a call.

To be frank in this area it does very little good, the call centre calls the alarm insulation company who send out some one to correct the fault, by time he gets there any intruders have gone, so all he does is phone police who will likely get there an hour latter, son worked for an alarm installation company and they make their money on the annual fees, not fitting the alarm. They have to be members of schemes to be able to use call centres, who can call police, today really needs a camera to be any good, if alarm goes off and camera is not working it is assumed it is an intruder, without cameras fitted it is assumed it is a fault.

In the main installing an empty bell box does as much good as fitting the alarm. A few dummy cameras and PIR's and the prospective intruder selects another house. So unless the alarm will satisfy insurers then all it does is switch the central heating down when you leave the house. So really does not matter if wired or wireless they both in real terms do nothing. Well not quite, if your upstairs at night if some one brakes in scaring them off again is good, and absent of alarm noise means you can sleep soundly. However no real need to be wired or wireless, stand alone PIR's with built in sounder would do same job.

I have extruder alarms, they stop mother escaping, major problem was turning them off, this is what the entry box does for you, it allows you to turn off the alarm before it goes off, I actually use a remote controlled socket, OK alarm only on doors, mother is not going to escape in her wheel chair through the window, however because I use a remote controlled socket I can set times, so 930 pm it is set, and goes off again at 8:30 am, sets again at 9:30 am to midday, then on again 6:30 pm to 8:30 pm. This means I don't forget to set it, I can also manually set with push button on socket, three remote controls, smart phones or PC. Batteries removed from alarms so no mains no alarm. It works well, and yes all doors, bed and panic button all wireless.

What you have to do is decide what you want the alarm to do. Remember alarms don't stop any one, they only tell one after the event that something has happened, so empty bell box and dummy cameras likely just as good.


Sorry but that is miss-information.



If it is connected to an Alarm Receiving Centre it will contact them when the FIRST device is activated not as you said TWO need to be activated before it calls them. They will receive an intruder signal when the first device is activated, but if a second device activates they will then receive a confirmed signal. What they do next depends on what has been agreed prior.

Also if there is a low battery they will get a "low battery" signal, the most up to date systems will even tell them which device has a low battery. What they do about it depends what has been agreed prior.

I do not want to argue, and it is nothing personal, but that is not all you have said that is wrong, but we are supposed to help and debate, not argue.

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Take it easy, a forum is only a collection of opinions. Above, are mine.

Which is correct? Metre or Meter? Click the link. to find out more.

No such thing as "Thou shalt put this wire here, Thou shalt put that wire there" .............Take a picture BEFORE you do the job.

If gloom had a voice, it would be me. :mrgreen:

:idea1: How to post a picture on this forum Click here


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:05 pm 
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Personally, I think wired should be the default choice unless cabling/time are factors which would prevent this being a viable option.
Once cable is in, it is in for life, you can change panel, sensors etc but the cable doesn't need to change.

When I did my house, I hid all cables within the floor space/loft/airing cupboard apart from a 1m drop which happens to be behind the fridge so technically is hidden.

Cables can be fed behind dot and dab plasterboard, under floors, under carpets etc.
A bit of planning and some luck with cable rods and a helping hand will get the cables hidden easily enough.

When I moved in, there was an ADT system already present.
They made no attempt to hide cables, along skirtings, over door frames - complete garbage.
Now all ripped out.

Now the only maintenance is changing the main battery every few years (<£10) and a walk test around the same time.

HTH
J

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:44 pm 
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someone-else wrote:
What they do about it depends what has been agreed prior.

I have been out of the alarm installation for some time, clearly things have changed, however I am sure it is still a problem getting an alarm monitored which has been DIY fitted.

I am sure in some areas an alarm is required, but in the main it's a deterrent, having ADT written on the bell box is likely more of a deterrent than B&Q.

Alarm cables can be got at, however unlikely in a private house, we did not hide cables as that allowed some one to fiddle with them and it is so easy to see when visible.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:54 pm 
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Hi All,

Apologies for the late reply. Many thanks for your replies.


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