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 Post subject: Quite the opposite...
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:53 am 
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...of energy saving.

We've seen recent reports of 'smart meters' being responsible for not-so-smart readings that have left some owners wondering why they've received bills in the thousands of pounds instead of their average normal usage. Well researchers in the Netherlands have been testing smart meters for accuracy and found that errors range from -32% to +582% :shock:

Conveniently (???) the error on the side of the CONSUMER is the lousy 32% (not to be sniffed at anyway) but the error on the side of the supplier is a massive 600%.

Apparently this turns out to be related to 'pulses' on the load (consumer) side as may be generated by dimmers, energy saving light bulbs and LEDs.

Although the article deals with smart meters in the Netherlands there is no reason to belive that such errors wouldn't be applicable to UK-built meters too.

About time someone did similar tests here in the UK eh??

Either way, if the meters can be made to read in the consumers benefit then expect some 'power-saving devices' to appear on the market shortly :lol:

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/h ... 0-percent/

Of course, the regulatory authorities in the Netherlands had to respond and the article finishes with an update that states:

Quote:
UPDATE [March 27, 2017]: ESMIG, which describes itself as |the European voice of the providers of smart energy solutions" has published research that disputes the findings of the Dutch researchers. Here are their main conclusions :

The electromagnetic interference phenomena created in the tests of the University of Twente grossly exceed emissions limits allowable under EU regulation for equipment typically used in households.
These conditions would not be found in any imaginable normal household scenario.
There is no reason to question smart metering technology.


Of course, the 'energy saving devices' that most people use are sourced from.... ta dah... China - where CE certification (on allowable EM limits) is awarded by the company that prints the labels.... :roll: so prepare to see a ban on any Chinese-made energy-saving devices.....

As to whether or not these conditions 'would not be found in any normal household' and 'there's no reason to question smart metering technology'............ yeah..... RIGHT :lol: they would say that, wouldn't they?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:42 am 
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whilst not knowingly registering less energy than you use is not a crime
using an an Instrument device or method to reduce recorded consumption is its called stealing so we cannot condone any device that reduced the recorded consumption as opposed to a device that will help you use less by telling you off power hungry items :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:33 pm 
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Fitting devices that happen to make the readings slow down (dimmers etc) isn't illegal so it isn't stealing per se.

But the serious problem, which is just as illegal I suppose, is the utilities robbing us !! Shouldn't there be a law against that?

Apparently the usual manufacturers test of these meters is to connect it to a known, fixed load. They can then 'calibrate' the meters to read (supposedly) correctly and accurately. But the real world is vastly different.... fridges on/off, SMPS in laptops etc, CFL's dimmers, induction hobs.... loads that vary enormously during the day and introduce distortion on the sinewave mains supply no matter what (reasonable) precautions might be made.

Given the reported instances of erroneous readings, how many people are being ripped off by even a few £'s a week (or whatever) by the potential inaccuracies? Aren't we already paying enough?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:49 pm 
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slowing down consumption is using less
using the same but registering fewer units by Instrument device or method is stealing
you have the choice to trade or not to trade with an energy company its a mutually entered into contract so fully legal
now do they have us over a barrel are there terms and conditions fair :dunno:
your choice really :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:10 pm 
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Contract? I see no contract? Show me yours......

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using the same but registering fewer units by Instrument device or method is stealing

Not if the devices you are using are purchased legally and designed for use in the home (CE marked etc). If I found a CE marked dimmer/LED/whatever that I knew would slow my readings down I'd use it..... legally and openly. It's not my fault they designed a meter that can't cope.

But who do we go to when THEY rob US? How do we know (for one?) and how do you get redress? This is a one-sided problem that the utilities have no financial incentive to remedy given the errors work (vastly) in their favour. When they install a meter do YOU get a warranty or a calibration certificate? What assurances do you get that it's all accurate? Where do 'consumer rights' stand on this?

It's a bit like the old financial trick of rounding down decimal fractions of a penny and stuffing it into your own account - for an individual they will never notice but for millions of people collectively it amounts to a vast sum of money. But we're not talking of fractions of pennies here - examples of people being 'done' for hundreds or even thousands of pounds may only come to light BECAUSE they are so ridiculous but what if YOU are being 'done' to the tune of a quid a month? Fiver a month? Tenner?

Firstly - at what point do you REALISE that you're being done?
Secondly - how do you prove it?
Thirdly - assuming you get it 'fixed' how do you know it won't happen again?

I think there would be a market for a 3rd party metering system that worked independently of the utilities and could be used to ensure fair play. Clearly, as the Dutch example proves, the system has faults - BIG faults. Unacceptable faults.

But that's big business (corporations) for you.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:17 pm 
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You've got the goodies b-a.....

Do an experiment. Take a meter reading. Then measure the consumption, AT THE EQUIPMENT, of all the stuff your place uses during the day.

Then 'time' their use and multiply the time by the consumption - tot it all up - how does it compare to what the meter reading says?

This is a public interest exercise so no BS-ing and obfuscating.... just do it :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:52 pm 
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off course you have a contract
it states your contract length
the cost off your units
your standing charges
etc etc
:lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:01 pm 
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When visiting caravan sites and marinas it was common to have a MCB which limited your usage, you paid extra to have a 6 amp rather than 4 amp and even more for 10 amp and again more for 16 amp.

Being able to extract a continuous 4 amp instead of the power usage fluctuating reduced ones bill, you could use a 4 amp (power in) battery charger and a 3kW inverter from the battery without breaking any rules.

The same applies to large firms supplied from national grid, often it is the peak demand which dictates the charge rather than how much is used. The whole idea of the smart meter is in the future the DNO can use different charging criteria, similar to the economy 7 system but not limited to that idea, so they can persuade users to use power when it is available.

This means if you want a meter to persuade the user not to use waveform clipping then that's OK as long as you are open about what you are doing. So technically if the supplier supplies power in November and then charges the new rates that came in during January that is wrong, but with estimated readings that can happen, in theory before changing the charge for power the meter should be read.

But other than changes in tariff there is nothing approximate or inaccurate reading a meter even once a year, taking the advert with the runner when she is half way around saying you have been running around a time is fair enough, as long as at the end you have an accurate reading, really the advertising authority should be insisting that miss leading adverts are stopped.


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