I was thinking of trying to get into one of these two- plumbing ( I have tried the apprenticeship route but didn't get in, in my thirties) and so am just left with the tech certificate level 2, which I am told is out of date- could you still go self-employed, as there isn't any other way?

Carpentry- the level 1 diploma- any chance of this leading to work? I would do both part-time and do my TEFL teaching during the day. Which of these two routes is the best?

Not really. the minimum you require for site work is a Level 2 (because CSCS cards are only issued for Level 2 and above). For bench work firms are increasingly requiring Level 3 and also Level 2 or Level 3 Wood Machining. Looks to me that for joinery at least you'd need to go back to college for a year unless someone would take you on, show you the basics and put you through an NVQ 2

unfortunatlelly all jobs are struggeling there are no levels within the trades that are exempt
do not believe any "training " that promise otherwise

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we are all ------------------still learning

Just tell them you are a Latvian/Pole/ Bosnian etc etc and you will get a CSCS card without needing any qualifications.

The level 2 minimum only applies to English workers.

Are you being serious, ROC?

Deadly serious. If you need a minimum of level 2 NVQ for a CSCS card then how do the Eastern Europeans manage to work on site with the card!!

If the card is meant to denote some one as being competent in terms of health and safety to work on site, then why allow it to be taken in a language other than English and thus flooding the sites with workers who will not know a warning is being shouted at them or at some one just about to endanger them!

How do workers that can't read English follow instructions on products in relation to health and safety!

I haven't put question marks as they are not questions. I know the answers..............MONEY.

If you are looking at training please DONT be tempted by these 'get fully qualified in 10 weeks and earn 50k a year' websites / training centres.

They look slick with their purpose built training centres and salesmen disguised as tutors but you will NEVER benifit from these places.

There are no short-cuts.

Check out your local college - nearly all do evening courses that lead through the NVQ range so you can train while maintaining an income / full time job. On top of this, use your initiative to find work with local trades (offer to work for a low rate / free) to gain 'real world' experience.

It can look like it's impossible to get a foot in the door - but with determination, motivation and initiative you can do it.

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If at first you don't succeed - remove all evidence that you tried.

To get a "qualified trades" card (blue or gold) you do indeed need at least an NVQ Level 2 (Note: NVQ, NOT C&G). A Level 2 gets you a Blue Card (Skilled Worker), a Level 3 gets you a Gold Card (Skilled Worker). If you served yout time as an indentured apprentice but you don't have an NVQ then you need to get one to get a card, a problem a lot of us old fartys have had...........

Presumably the Poles, etc have "equivalent qualifications" although how the CITB check them is a mystery to me


Yes, true enough. I've even had that discussion with an HSE inspector who was equally appalled that people who are incapable of taking written or verbal instructions are ever allowed to do any work on a site or in a factory where ther could be any associated risks (and on a site that means almost everything). Frtunately some sites I've worked on simply won't allow people who aren't fluent in English to work their. Some call that discrimination; some of us call it applying a safety culture. I've worked abroad so I've seen this problem from the other side, but then I learned a couple of languages to allow me to do the jobs.....