Hi all

Noticed a leak in the cupboard under the sink the other day - with a pan under it, it's leaking about 1 inch over night into a 7inch diameter pan.

At first I convinced myself after prodding around with a torch and some kitchen roll, that it was on the threaded nut just above the isolation screw thing on the pipe on the left in the pic. I turned off the water, dried it all off, and added some PET tape to it.

Did it all back up and put the water on, and it immediately started again. Got my head right behind the sink (almost broke my sodding neck doing it) and spotted a 3rd, smaller pipe/tube between the hot and cold. Anyone have any idea what this is? There seems to be a steady trickle coming out of it. Could it be to fit a waste disposal? Either way, it's wet.

Oddly though, the left-hand pipe of the two main ones isn't actually touching that smaller leaking one, so that would imply two leaks which I doubt. Could it be leaking from higher up at the actual tap, and running down both the left cold water pipe, and trickling out of that little one?

I get the impression it might be something perishable at the tap, a rubber washer of some sort? I've shown a pic of the tap style in case that sheds any light on it.

As you can tell, I'm no plumber - this is our first house so I've never done any plumbing before but my old man has and he's going to have a look tomorrow. As you can see from the pics there's very limited access, so I might have to take the whole sink out (easy enough as there's no sealant around it). I can't see anywhere to undo the tap either - is it done from on top?

Anyway, I know this is the sort of thing you need to see, but any thoughts at all would be welcomed and appreciated.

cheers
Matt



The main leak is running down the left pipe here.



It's also running out of that small one in the middle, trickling down the right pipe.



Needs a clean, scuse the mess!

The 3rd middle bit is a nut to hold the tap in place...

The pipe on the left is most likely the problem. isolate the water supply and undo the pipe at the compression joint..then carefully tighten the pipe to the tap...then re-make the connection with the compression joint ...whilst holding the copper tail to the tap steady...

(Or get your Dad to do it tomorrow..)

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Thanks for the advice mate - the tap is loose by the way, could it just need the nut tightening?

Also, which bit is the compression joint? I've tightened the pipes at the nuts just below and above the isolation screw bit... is it different to that?

thanks
Matt

-- Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:11 pm --

Bit of an update - I just tried tightening up that nut, and it turned loads; the tap is now tight/firm and doesn't move around like it did.

The leak is coming down the front of the left pipe now rather than behind it, so I know its definitely the cold pipe, up at the tap itself, which really cuts down the problem I suppose. I assume tightening the tap moved something hence the leak being visible rolling down the front of the pipe now.

If the tap is loose then the problem is certainly surface water getting under the body of the tap.

Get a box spanner 12mm I think but may be 10mm, and do the nut up tight,

If you turn the water off, and slacken the bottom nut, you can use the compression fitting to tighten the pipes into the body.

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Nice one for that mate - but still none the wiser as to what a compression joint is... sorry! If you could clarify that'd be ace, cheers

Matt

You can just see the compression nut at the bottom of the first pic.

It may be an idea to post another pic showing it all.

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Ah nice one I'll give that a go thanks.

Best I can do with the pic is below - there's too much other plumbing in the way to get anything more in. All the white plastic piping under the sink etc.

Worrying thing is that just below and left of the compression joints is a plug socket for the washing machine. It had a few drops on it too, not a great place to put the damn thing!



-- Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:13 pm --

*edit* Right, another update.

I undid the compression joint and tightened the pipe on the left. It did turn a bit and felt like it was tighter. I then tightened up the middle nut and tested each pipe individually by isolating one, drying the pipes with kitchen roll, then waiting to see which one produced the leak.

The left one doesnt actually seem to be the issue - as soon as I turn the water on the the one on the right, the leak starts again.

Problem with that is that the pipe on the right is barely accessible, it's gona be a nightmare and I'm a skinny bloke myself. will give it a go tomorrow night and let you know!

cheers
Matt

Yes they are compression valves.

Don't undo the bottom nut unless you can isolate the water elsewhere.

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Hi again

Got fed up with trying to maneuver with absolutely no room whatsoever so I took the sink out. Sure enough you lot were spot on - the cold tap's rubber ring seal thing on the threads was sticking out where the pipe meets the base of the tap unit; it's all dried out and useless.

So I'm going to B&Q tomorrow, pipe in hand (heh) to see if I can just get a new rubber bit.

Should be much easier stickin it all back together. I can do up the cold pipe (the awkward b*stard on the right) by moving the left one down slightly - I know it's not good to be waggling pipes around but an inch or so doesn't seem to hurt and will save me tearing my face off with frustration because I can't even get 1/4 turn on the spanner.

Incidentally, what's your opinion on just re-sealing the sink back into place? It had some crappy brackets holding it in place, about 8 of them all around it, but 6 of them were screwed in so loose I doubt they had any effect whatsoever. Would it be sufficient/acceptable to just put the sink back in, and seal it?

I don't want to look or sound like a cowboy doing a bodge job so tell me if it's a crap idea, but when in place it is completely flush with the kitchen surface so it shouldn't wobble or anything.

Thanks again for your help, I've learned a few things along the way and it's not going to cost me much at all! Pennies for the rubber bit I should think.

cheers
Matt

Bad idea, do it right or get a pro in.

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Ok no worries, I can fit all the brackets on properly - whoever put the sink in before me left it in a mess so I'll do it properly!

Sorry if it sounded cowboyish, it's all a bit new to me so I don't know what's acceptable with all this really! that's why I'm here :)

Can you recommend what I should stick the sink back down with? Is there any particular type of sealant which acts like a glue? Or is the sealant just to waterproof it then brackets from underneath hold it in place?

I might see if B&Q have some better brackets also.

thanks
Matt

Usually has a sticky tape, bit like a door draught excluder.

The clips you should try and get at least one on each corner and at least one in the long centers.

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Cool thanks for that - I quickly realised I was being a bit lazy and googled it too. I think it's not so much the clips which are crap, but the way they've been screwed in looks rushed so the holes are too big and therefore the screws are loose!

I'll move them all across a couple of inches and use new holes, should be much better. My first venture into plumbing this, simple as it may be!

cheers again mate

Matt

*edit* Please refresh if you've viewed this in the last 10mins since posting, as I've amended the pics.

Right, got an update.

My old man isn't well (nothing serious) so I drafted in the father in-law instead. He's fitted kitchens before so he seemed a good idea.

He picked me up some new pipes today, flexible ones rather than the rigid copper ones I had before - easier to fit in the tiny space I have.

Anyway, they're too long by a good few inches in my opinion, so the cold pipe is bent almost at 90 degrees at the tap base, and the hot is bent as shown below (pic 1).

It doesn't appear to have affected the water pressure, but if you look at the 2nd picture below (the "before" if you will) you can see how the 2 pipes run more or less parallel. The hot pipe (left) runs away to the left in an L shape as you can see in the 3rd pic. What worries me is, the pressure from the new flexible pipe leading to the hot tap, pushing down onto the compression-joint, is pushing the copper pipes closer together.

What I mean is, as you can see in pic 4 they're no longer parallel, so the left-hand pipe is "bending" at the L joint if that makes sense. How much give is there with copper pipes, will that be ok or should I take it all out and get shorter flexible pipes?

Also, he got the wrong fittings so I had to cut two bits of copper pipe, with a nut and an olive at each end, to connect up the tap-pipe to the compression joint. Is this really pikey and cowboy or is it an acceptable solution? Please be patient with me if this is horrendous - I'm a desk jockey, totally new to all this!

thanks,
Matt



Concerning bend.



Running more or less parallel.



Curves away to the left.



Wonky.

Those flexi's do look a little stressed...but assuming no leaks for now, job done..(wouldn't worry about the flex/out of true in the copper)

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I Know it says I'm On-line, but I might have just left myself logged in, whilst I'm out....