Further to my cable problems..

I am doing up an old bedsit. I removed the ensuite and the partition walls that took up the corner. in one of those walls were 2 black pipes from the central heating. after making a small hole in the ceiling I can see that they are feeding 2 radiators in the flat above.

I would like to relocate these pipes to the corner on the left so that i dont have to box them in beside a window.

after making a few inspection holes , poking my head up in the dust with a torch, and taking up the floorboards, I had an idea.

Because they are (i think) that galvanised pipe that is connected by threaded joint that i do not want to go messing around with,

Can I or should I :

1. make a long ' s ' shape? so that I cut them top and bottom on one side, then connect new pipe and double back to the left wall, down the wall and under the floor back to where I had cut them. Now to me it sounds wrong, because its so much easier than trying to make neat joins with the galv.

2. make that 's' in the ceiling cavity? about 250mm deep.

3. use 22mm copper or hep2 , reducing from 28mm which is the galvanised.

4. freeze the pipes I am working on, then drain the two rads upstairs (from down below, no access to upstairs) while I move pipework around, that when Im finished all will be ok and not have fecked up the CH for the other apartments in building.

5. cut a chase in wall and plaster over the pipes(no joins). the fella in the plumbing merchants gave me a hessian(sp) sack like material and said that what you use when burrying pipes in concrete..which Ive read is a bit of a no no? so should I put themin wider plastic pipe that act as conduits?

6. not be attempting work like this as this is a daft idea?

Clanger / critisize at will !

Bad idea from the start unless you get a mechanical plumber in to move them. Expensive.

The pipes are 3/4" black iron tube. Not galvanized.

I assume you have a communal heating system.

Altering the pipes will be a major job.

A lot of the work you're doing is dodgy, and probably contravenes the regs for multi-occupancy buildings, there are fire regs for starters and you've just about destroyed them.

Did you check whether the wall were supporting anything in the flat above.

Unless you have written permission, to turn off other flats and willy nilly alter their services/supplies, you're most likely trespassing, They are not your cables or pipes to do what you like with, in fact you should be very concerned that everything above is still working.

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The walls yes I checked , they were not supporting another wall , and the flat above is the last one and has a flat roof, like an annex. The electricity was checked by an electrician yesterday and that apartment is working fine.

we got verbal permission from the other flats on that level and above to turn off electricity and water as long as some notice was given.

As regards fire regulations - you mean by taking down the partition walls, or the electrical work?



The pipes:it s a comunal system. the apt on top is the last from that line.
you say it would be a major job to move them. why is that? are they just a lot more difficult to cut and join, or is it because it is a CH system?

Did the electrician check inside the apartment, and reset any clocks, timers etc, and check nothing has tripped out or fused.

Anyway back to two little pipes.

Is it a one or two pipe system.
Assume you'll need four freezers at least 1m away from the work area.
Can you safely put a large blowlamp under the floor above to heat the joints up.
Can you get access in the room about.
Who will supply the hot works permit.
What public liability insurance is/will be in place.
What happens if something catches fire.
Is the water circulating, even by gravity.
How good are the pipes, will they crush when you try to unscrew then. Will they just snap off.
What happens if it goes tits up, say any of the above, or the ice plug blows, and you have a flood on your hands.
Will you have access to the apartment below.
Clearly, draining the building, or zone if possible is the only safe way.
How do you intend to get in all the apartments to refill their radiators, add inhibitor etc.
Do you know or have a plumber that can cut and thread steel pipes.
Do you have any idea what this could potentially cost.
Have you asked the Council yet, they may insist on using their own labour.

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a wall can still be load bearing even with no wall above if it supports the floor[joists or boards join above the wall]

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we are all ------------------still learning

Electrician: no he didnt check these things , no access at time. I did today however, fridge , sorry the sockets, RCD had tripped. Was empty,might not have been though.

Big Al - I had that nagging thought allright in my head. but had a look at the joists(lot of the lath plaster is down) and convinced myself it would be alright. just beside where those cables were was a 100+mm square post that formed a corner off which was a doorway and the corner of the partition wall. if I were to put it back would that help? and decorate around it. the partition wall itself was very flimsey, whether it was intended to support anything I dont know, but practically the only solid bit in that bathroom was that post. then again , thats only my opinion.

The Scruff: I thought this morning your questions were rhetorical, show how out of my depth I was. Fair enough, but they were valid and helped me a lot today.they sure kept a few plumbers that I called on their toes.

i cant answer them all but will give a shot.


.


Is it a one or two pipe system.
-I cant say. the pipes feed 2 radiators above me, flow, return and end at 2nd rad.

Assume you'll need four freezers at least 1m away from the work area.
-I have used a freezemaster, only one, with freeze heads a foot apart, followed instructions to the letter, 30-40mins freeze time and got 2 x 120mm ice plugs, lasted 5 mins after freeze heads removed(and joints in place). I called freezemaster first to ask advice.

Can you safely put a large blowlamp under the floor above to heat the joints up.
-I decided not to attempt to thread into the elbows.Ive never done it and there was jointing compound and corrosion. I cut the pipes and fitted a 'johnson' (?) compression fitting.

Can you get access in the room about.
-Downstairs yes, upstairs, irrigularly.

Who will supply the hot works permit.
-n/a
What public liability insurance is/will be in place.
-my own

What happens if something catches fire.
-n/a for blowtorch.presume that what you meant

Is the water circulating, even by gravity.
-not by a pump as I checked. Gravity, I dont know. But thanks for this one especially, I made sure the pipes were frosted 2 inches or more. but yes, could not be 100% there was no flow.

How good are the pipes, will they crush when you try to unscrew then. Will they just snap off.
-compared to the galv they were in good state.and the were inch wide btw. but I tried for half hour to unscrew 1/2inch galv from previous job, for parctice, and i couldnt budge them so decided to cut instead.

What happens if it goes tits up, say any of the above, or the ice plug blows, and you have a flood on your hands.
-well I didnt have an answer for that. I had the johnson compression at the ready with a cap on it, but if say the ice had blown mid way through cutting then yes, disaster. I didnt go into it blind, but there was a risk . it was not professional, but it worked.

Will you have access to the apartment below.
I did

Clearly, draining the building, or zone if possible is the only safe way.
-I didnt want to drain the zone, if i understand that term right, because as you say I would have to refill the radiators. as it is I have lost 2 x 2.5m x 28mm of water.

How do you intend to get in all the apartments to refill their radiators, add inhibitor etc.
-that might be the last hurdle allright.
Do you know or have a plumber that can cut and thread steel pipes.
-I cut with a hacksaw, very quick actually, and as I said before used compression.

Do you have any idea what this could potentially cost.
-that was always in mind while I was working.

Have you asked the Council yet, they may insist on using their own labour
-ah come on now. they , please god, are and will be unaware of this. as you have pointed out what i am doing is dodgy, and not within regulations.but, and you may find this funny, I want to do the job right. Just do it myself thats all.
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Ok so you went and cut the pipe anyway.

What johnson fitting did you use.

And more importantly what pipe have you used to bridge the gap.

Would love to see a pic now.

You could be responsible for corrosion and replacement of the entire heating system in the building.

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you think he may have used galvanised fittings?

Know idea yet, possibly copper, but in any case he's used an unsuitable fitting to connect it with.
The chance are it will fall to bits as soon as the heating is turned on.

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Can I ask Bruno, is this your own property or a clients?

His Aunts Council bedsit.

bunch-of-cables-in-middle-of-room-move-t31966.html

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This could go so badly wrong....

Did a quick search and cant find the coupling, will find when I get back there. I have not bridged the gap yet, I put gate valves or caps on the end of the couplings. I was going to be bridging with 28mm copper.

the place is corroded to hell already, copper to galvanise in all the flats and they are falling apart. but thats by the by.

would you have a sugestion for a more suitable fitting while I have the freezer?
Thank you

It's blue band, medium black tube, not galvanized. And it's 3/4" BSP.



You're stuck with an unsuitable fitting, or calling the big guys in. And I don't mean any old plumber.

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