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siraz
Member
Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 90
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 Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:06 pm Post subject: loft-staircase-is-it-easy-to-fit-winder-and-straight-flight- |
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Hi All,
I had to put the belwo link, as i could not add picture's, as i could not find add attachments.
http://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk/forum1/loft-staircase-is-it-easy-to-fit-winder-and-straight-flight-t12550-15.html
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tim'll fix it
BANNED
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 2137
Location: Leicestershire
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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no felt
no steels
looks like a bodge job to me
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dewaltdisney
Senior Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 577
Location: Essex
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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Has there been a fire? The roof timbers looked charred
DWD
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i fit
BANNED
Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 131
Location: Thanet
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Those floor joists should be hanging off of rsj's not stuck in the wall.
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thescruff
Senior Member
Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 5720
Location: Bath
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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| i fit wrote: |
| Those floor joists should be hanging off of rsj's not stuck in the wall. |
Why !!!!
Looks like a typical slate roof on a terrace house to me.
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siraz
Member
Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 90
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:23 am Post subject: |
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The roof is original, as the hosue was built approximate in 1900's.
Why do you need a steel ?, as the old joist were sitting on the external wall and middle wall. The new joist are sitting on the same external wall and middle wall.
Job is not completed yet, as we just broke the old celing over the weekend. I may use the breatheble felt and Triso super 10.
There has been no fire, as it may be the soot and dust which may have stained some of the joist.
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big-all
Pro Carpenter
Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 2784
Location: redhill surrey an auld reekie laddie
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:07 am Post subject: |
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i am no expert
but i belive your main problem is spread
normaly the ceiling forms a triangle and stops the natural tendacy for the weight off the roof pushing the walls out!!!
as i say i am no expert on roofs but in my opinion you should get a structural engeneer/building control involved
i realy dont understand your reluctance to involve b/c
if you do it right you get a passed loft extension
if you get it wrong you can get guidance of how to put it right and still get it passed
if you need permision and you havent applied for it and you want to do it on the "queit" i would still get a structural engineer involved to make shure you are doing it safely 
looking at your pictures you apear to have 4 joists hanging of single joists either side without doubleing /tripleing up of the joists to take the extra weight!!
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gday2uk
Junior Member
Joined: 11 May 2007
Posts: 38
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| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Shouldn't there be purlins and binders or trusses or SOMETHING???
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siraz
Member
Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 90
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:35 am Post subject: |
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| No this property was built in 1900. New properties and amy be after 1930 they started to make the Trussed roof.
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gday2uk
Junior Member
Joined: 11 May 2007
Posts: 38
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| Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:40 am Post subject: |
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| Yes I see now, you have two purlins, but it seems a long span not to have any struts bracing them and transferring some of the load?
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marksson
Senior Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 436
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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weird comments.
I see absolutely nothing wrong here.
No need for steels or hangers as joists sit on exist wall plates.
No need for felt as roof should be water tight without it.
Purlins are there and yes over time they will (and have) sagged but so what?
It looks like there is an additional joist on a trimmer but that is in turn on a double joist, so not going anywhere.
There really is no need to over engineer, are the new joists bolted to the rafters though?
Is this a loft conversion or a loft room?
If a loft conversion then you need building regs, if a loft room then no building control but you cannot call it a bedroom.
As I understand it you do not need planning unless you are materially changing the appearance (inc roof).
I have done lots of loft conversions as well as lots of loft rooms.
Sometimes it is just not possible to achieve everything required to get a loft conversion, therefore do what is possible and it becomes a loft room.
As for losing value that would probably depend on the location, a loft room in a terraced house in the SE wouldn't lose money elsewher it might, but recently did 2 loft rooms in Swansea and they will not be looking at a loss or a problem with hip.
Simply a matter of supply and demand.
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Building Materials Sourcing
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Tryanything
Senior Member
Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 1535
Location: Essex
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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Marksson
New joists are cut into external wall and not tied in to the brickwork
Joists do not sit on existing wall plates as its a new floor put in at a
lower level as you can see by the plaster line above the joists
The original ceiling joist, struts and ties have been removed which were
a structual part of the roof to stop sagging and spreading
IMO a structual engineer and BC should have been involved in this
project as l believe the structure of the roof is now unsafe
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marksson
Senior Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 436
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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oops, can't believe that I missed that.
couldn't see for the trees, my apologies.
Having said that I was working on a couple of Victorian semi's recently and they both had a single (sagging) purlin on each pitch, no braces and the joists were not fixed to any of the wall plates or indeed to each other. Therefore to my mind relying on the purlin alone to stop spread and both appeared to be ok 100 years on.
I do think that we all have a tendency to over engineer maybe?
(you can tell that my tone has changed somewhat). 
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siraz
Member
Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 90
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 11:02 am Post subject: |
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Yes Marksson is correct.
I just checked my neighbours loft and it has been through Building Regs and it has the same layout as mine. I will need to fix 3x2 to the roof rafters to the new joist to hold the roof if there is high gales to hold the roof rafters.
There were no additional support or steel needed. The jost were place on the wall, as this is what they have done on the next door loft conversion.
I will have the roofer install the 2 veluxes and then i will use TRISO Super 10 and then plaster board it out.
Our Next door conversion is really cold in winter and in Summer really hot, but loft conversion Guy only use 2 inch fibre glass insulation and it is just not doing the job.
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