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www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk Forum Index -> Electric Forum UK
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electric_girl
Junior Member
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Posts: 14
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 Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:34 pm Post subject: Ceiling light yellow wire? |
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Hello, I'm new here, my name is Lucy. Me and my partner have recently bought a new house and have been trying our hand at DIY. We took a srtip light down and replaced it with a modern fitting which was very easy as there were only 3 wires, L (red), E and N (black) however when we attempted the do the other, there were more wires and a Yellow? 2 black, 2 red, 2 earth and 1 yellow. So, we are stuck as to where the wires go in our fitting. Also there is a blue and a brown linked to an independant terminal block.
I have looked all over this site, and watched a video and am still stuck, please help :( |
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IDontBelieveIt
Senior Member
Joined: 29 Jul 2008
Posts: 937
Location: North Hampshire
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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Difficult to guess what is going on here Lucy as not everyone sticks to a colour coding convention so I am afraid I can only guess so laese proceed with GREAT caution and if in doubt call in a sparky it will not cost much to get it sorted out and DO turn the power OFF before attempting any work.
My guess is that this is the end of a loop-in, loop-out circuit -
The 2 blacks are neutral and need to go the the neutral connection of the new light fitting.
One red is the phase (live) supply and the other is the switch wire (it goes to the light switch and should be connected to the COM(MMON) terminal.
The yellow is the other connection to the light switch (L1) - check this by looking at the cables at the light switch and see if the yellow is present.
As a matter of interest the old three core cables was coded red, blue and yellow and in domestic situations was used in two-way lighting circuits. Doe this lighting arrangement have 2-way switching say one switch by back door the other entrance to the kitchen?
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electric_girl
Junior Member
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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Thankyou very much for your reply! I was wondering the same myself about the 2-way, as I have recently re-wired a non-working 2 way but we only have 1 switch in the kitchen 2 gang? I took the light switch off earlier 2 see if it gave me any other ideas and the yellow wire was present! Also, I am unsure which the switched live is? I just cannot figure out the yellow wire?
:) |
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Rich-Ando
Approved Electrician
Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 2481
Location: Derby, Derbyshire
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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it also depends which room you are talking about.
if it were the bathroom light for instance, the yellow could be to a fan.
if you have a digital camera, take some pictures of the connections and attach them here for us to see, it might help.
always make sure you turn power off as IDB said and then mark each cable and draw it so you know where they started if you are undoing them.  |
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IDontBelieveIt
Senior Member
Joined: 29 Jul 2008
Posts: 937
Location: North Hampshire
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 7:28 am Post subject: |
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Hello again Lucy -
When you say one-way 2-gang are you implying that the original two florry lights were independently switched?
If so what colour cables do you have at the light switches?
Is it possible that there is a cross connection between the two florries using some old scrap bit of 3-core that was lying around?
As Rich says a photo(s) would say a thousand words, thank for that idea Rich.
It is tricky to resolve this one without being there, it would probably take all of 5 minutes to sort it out and get it working. Maybe how you and your partner should be thinking in terms of maybe getting a sparky in - sort of on his/her way to work or on his/her way home from work type of job.
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electric_girl
Junior Member
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 8:50 am Post subject: |
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thanks for replies! I am a very persistent person and am dying to solve this? Would an electrician just take the mick tho and charge a fortune for a ridiculously tiny job?
There is one switch in the kitchen, with 2 gangs - 1 works 1 light, the easy one which i mentioned earlier with 3 wires, the other which is this one causing me problems.
There are 2 cables coming out of the ceiling, with all these wires, a black, red and earth from one, and a black, red, earth and yellow from the other. At the socket there are 4 wires, 2 in each gang and the yellow is present. Also a red goes from one gang to the other within the switch.
We do have a pull cord extractor fan in the kitchen?
Argh!!!!!!!!!!! :) |
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IDontBelieveIt
Senior Member
Joined: 29 Jul 2008
Posts: 937
Location: North Hampshire
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 9:30 am Post subject: |
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Well I admire your persistence!
Red, Black and Yellow with a cpc (earth) is NOT any standard cable colour coding.
When you say 'socket' I assume you mean the back box for the light switch. If there are 4 wires here then my guess is that the two lights were completely independent of each other OR there was at some time 2-way switching.
It is the black, red, yellow and cpc cable that is throwing me of course as there is no such cable (the old standard was red, blue and yellow)... ummm
No half decent registered and professional sparky would nor should they either take the Mickey, laugh at your attempts and nor should they over-charge. Were I to pop in a sort it out, on my way to or from work, I would charge something like £10/15 or a cuppa whichever came first.
I am sorry I cannot be of much help but it is very difficult to visualise.
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electric_girl
Junior Member
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:29 am Post subject: |
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| Well, I will try and get a photo on later, if not I will give a proper detailed account of which wires are coming from where! If all else fails, I will call an electrician. Thanks for your replies :) |
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electric_girl
Junior Member
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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Hello again! Well I was confused, I still am, but a little clearer as I have looked again and am now sure of what wires I have!
Ceiling rose - 3 cables
cable 1 - black, red and earth
cable 2 - black, red and earth
cable 3 - blue, red, yellow and earth
1 red and the blue (from different cables are in a terminal block)
at the light switch (only one switch with 2 gangs)
1 cable - blue and red in one side and yellow and LINKED red (to other red) in other side.
I am trying to get photos on as we speak!
P.S am I right in thinking the red in the 3rd cable is the switched live??
Phew! Thanks in advance! |
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ultimatehandyman
Site Admin
Joined: 16 Jul 2005
Posts: 9278
Location: Darwen, Lancashire
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IDontBelieveIt
Senior Member
Joined: 29 Jul 2008
Posts: 937
Location: North Hampshire
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 6:56 am Post subject: |
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Well I certainly do admire your determination Lucy!
It looks like a loop-in, loop-out cct - modified by somebody! The 3 core is rarely used for straightforward lighting circuits like the kitchen the only cases where 3-core is used is in two-way switching which the place may have had at sometime in the past.
I assume that you have looked at the excellent video (see thread "How can I work out...") which explains identifying switch wires.
I can only suspect that the two t/e cables at the ceiling (red/black) are part of the loop-in loop-out and the 3-core is meant to be the switch wire.
The thing that is throwing me off course is the terminal junction at the switch (red and blue linked). This looks like it may have been loop-in loop-out at the switch back box (which is another standard method).
It is VERY hard without being there to sort this out.
What I would do is to disregard all wiring assignments and basically start again. I would find out which is the live feeder cable in the ceiling and from that able to determine which is the out going feeder. This leaves the third cable being the switch wire (by elimination). The problems I have of going further is that I would be doing this live using proper test equipment and I DON'T want you or your partner to do that!
I think it best to call in a sparky Lucy (please) and swallow your pride on this one.
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mog1
Junior Member
Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 5
Location: Cambridgeshire
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| Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:12 pm Post subject: Yellow wire |
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Lucy, this sounds like a similar problem to mine (mog1). I have added some photos and a very rough picture of the wiring in the switch to my posting, feel free to have a look and see if it is similar. I think that at some point there was 2way switching going on, but my house had been split into flats and then unsplit at some point in time, not to mention the stairs being moved. I have tried every combination I can but still cannot my light to work but if your switch wiring has been done in a similar way to mine, perhaps it will give someone who understands a clue as to what is going on.  |
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electric_girl
Junior Member
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:22 pm Post subject: Re: Yellow wire |
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[quote="mog1"]Lucy, this sounds like a similar problem to mine (mog1). I have added some photos and a very rough picture of the wiring in the switch to my posting, feel free to have a look and see if it is similar. I think that at some point there was 2way switching going on, but my house had been split into flats and then unsplit at some point in time, not to mention the stairs being moved. I have tried every combination I can but still cannot my light to work but if your switch wiring has been done in a similar way to mine, perhaps it will give someone who understands a clue as to what is going on. [/quote]
Hi, I have solved my prob, but not posted the pics, I can post them tho? I could not see your pics, or a link, but here is the link to the thread where someone kindly answered for me:
http://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk/forum1/new-ceiling-light-already-posted-in-lighting-t11609 |
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