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 Post subject: Pipe Cowl....
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:35 pm 
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I am obtaining materials for a plumber to install, he doesn't know what he is to do on arrival.

We have a Joule direct tank with associated valves & pressure vessel, my research showed a pipe cowl to be a modern neat fitting.

On going to get this from the merchant, they said they hardly ever sell them, most still do the time-consuming two-elbows outlet. Fair enough, I don't care which it ends up, but why, or why not, the cowl?


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 Post subject: Re: Pipe Cowl....
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:49 pm 
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I'm guessing this is the mushroom termination for the D2 pipe??

Depending on the length of run you may need 28mm pipe for D2, even if the pipes 22mm the cowl still needs to flow enough water to ensure full discharge. As long as it's warranted for unvented discharge there's no reason you can't use it.

However personally I prefer to terminate the D2 pipe by running it down to between 4-6"from the ground.

Hopefully the plumber has a G3 card? It's needed to fit an unvented cylinder

Cracking choice in a Joule cylinder, best on the market by miles but then I know the guys that make them!! :thumbright:

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 Post subject: Re: Pipe Cowl....
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:07 pm 
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Um, thanks, but initial response is - why is the tundish supplied with the Joule 15 - 22 then?

The Joule (120 litre Slimline Direct) is very nice looking but the diffent angles of inlet/outlet/providing access to elements (around roof trusses) is provingto be a right pain.

While I have your attention, located in a loft (above the insulation) does this Joule need a jacket? I have 19mm wall climaflex for the copper & full-bore 22mm supply valve.


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 Post subject: Re: Pipe Cowl....
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:28 pm 
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No reply yet to txt to plumber asking G3. Edit....... just in.

He says "unvented cert ran out years ago never been an issue, installation will be certificated".

D2 run tank to outside will be 3 metres down slope (30°) of rafter. Don't really want pipe running eaves to ground!


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 Post subject: Re: Pipe Cowl....
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:32 pm 
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It comes with a 15-22 with the expectation that if 28mm (or more) is needed the plumber will either buy a new tundish or upgrade it directly underneath - there has to be at least a 300mm drop before any bends :wink:

The standing losses on the cylinder are very very low I don't think you'd gain anything meaningful but putting additional insulation on it.

Are you running it on economy 7??

Seen your last post:

D2 will be fine in 22mm over that distance

It's up to you if you're happy to let him fit it for someone else to sign off. My UV ticket costs me about 120 every 5 years so not exactly expensive!!

However when we originally did them we were told it was an evergreen quallie that lasted for life before they changed their minds so loads of guys don't bother to renew it!!

Don't blame them really :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Pipe Cowl....
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:07 pm 
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Noted. Thank you for being so helpful, as I know you always are, in moderation!

I have only met the plumber once, he and the electrician are subbies for/of my builder, this is quite a big project, two dwellings/barn conversion, plan it as we go along.

In his text reply he said, terminate 200mm off the ground or over a drain, concurs with you. But from my side, I don't really want a copper pipe running down the outside of a pretty 200 year old stone barn just because we are modernising it to 21st. century equipment.

Ho hum.

Seeing him Monday, haven't bought the cowls anyway (as merchant didn't have them).

Thanks for advice re. insulation, I will come back to you if they freeze up in the harsh winter of 2019.

Paul


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 Post subject: Re: Pipe Cowl....
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:13 pm 
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Razor wrote:
Are you running it on economy 7??


Yes, we have it in the supply so might as well connect to it, for what it's worth, and the Joule has two elements. (See my other post in Electrical).

Personally I couldn't care less as I'm not sure it's worth having these days.


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 Post subject: Re: Pipe Cowl....
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:16 pm 
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arco_iris wrote:
On going to get this from the merchant, they said they hardly ever sell them, most still do the time-consuming two-elbows outlet. Fair enough, I don't care which it ends up, but why, or why not, the cowl?

You find a lot, with plumbing (and probably other trades too) that there's a healthy resistance to change. Whether it's combi boilers, plastic pipe, push fit fittings, flexible tap connectors, or whatever. Installers tend to want to stick to what they know works. It takes years for the industry to accept new products and technologies. Pretty much everything in that little list was roundly rubbished as a flash-in-the-pan, or unreliable, or both, but they're all commonly used items now.

I think that's mostly a good thing, and it's hardly surprising when you look at the number of "innovative" new products that end up on the scrap heap. Nobody wants to be a guinea pig in a business where installation reliability is all important.

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 Post subject: Re: Pipe Cowl....
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:21 pm 
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I've got about 20 of them in the garage :lol: :lol:

BG supplied them for a while but changed them as their rules said all pipes must be sleeved through walls and it was too much work for direct labour to core big enough holes so I appropriated a few :wink:

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For this message the author Razor has received gratitude : chrrris
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 Post subject: Re: Pipe Cowl....
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:19 am 
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I fit these 'cowls' as you call them on all boilers, have done for years.

They are standard stock items at my suppliers.

Never, to date, seen a 22mm version though, only 15mm.

I would never turn up to a job such as this without having visited the site before hand, whether I was supply parts or not.

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 Post subject: Re: Pipe Cowl....
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:21 am 
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Razor wrote:
I'm guessing this is the mushroom termination for the D2 pipe??

Depending on the length of run you may need 28mm pipe for D2, even if the pipes 22mm the cowl still needs to flow enough water to ensure full discharge. As long as it's warranted for unvented discharge there's no reason you can't use it.

However personally I prefer to terminate the D2 pipe by running it down to between 4-6"from the ground.

Hopefully the plumber has a G3 card? It's needed to fit an unvented cylinder

Cracking choice in a Joule cylinder, best on the market by miles but then I know the guys that make them!! :thumbright:

I always thought it had to be a maximum of 100mm off the ground, but as per usual, quite happy to be corrected :thumbright:

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