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 Post subject: Painting over wallpaper?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 3:16 am 
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Can you paint over wallpaper? The house that we are looking at buying has ugly wallpaper in every room. I'm not a lazy person, but the kitchen, 4 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms and recroom all have ugly wallpaper. It would take forever to remove the wallpaper, so if there is any easy way to paint over it without having to remove it, then I am all for that. We all ready have to put all new floors in, all new windows and doors plus a new heating system, that is going to be a lot of work in it self, so being able to paint over the wallpaper would be really beneficial. Has anyone done this and did it turn out for you?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 9:24 am 
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I would never do it unless the paper is intended to be painted in the first place

Youl probably find joints will show..it will blister, bubble etc

And the worst thing is..you wont know how successful it will be util the room is painted..then youl will have wasted materials and it will be a lot harder to strip off.

Are Lowes and the Home store your two biggest DIY centres over there?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 2:46 pm 
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I also wouldn't recommend trying to paint over the wallpaper for the same reasons mentioned above. I just wanted to add that even though it is a lot of work, such projects can be a good bonding time for you and your family.
Maybe that sounds a little cheesy to you, but trust me, it has worked wonders for me in the past.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:21 am 
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Done it a few times m8.

Yeah get the odd bubble here and there but just treat like lining paper.

Would only do it if paper looks sound!

Add pva to paint as this helps paint to stick to paper.

Good luck!!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:56 am 
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Ignore Fordy's advice about PVA...seriously not a good idea. Keep PVA for the jobs it's meant for and don't misuse it, it will cause you more grief than anything else

You can paint over wallpaper. I wouldn't say it's best practice and I wouldn't want to do it on a job but if budget or situation demanded it I would do it providing I felt that the wallpaper was well adhered to the surface. If I had to do it...I would do it the best I knew how.

Nearly all wallpaper pastes are water based and reactivated by water/moisture so introducing moisture or water based products to the surface is going to more than likely bubble the paper and/or encourage edges to lift.

So that leaves you with solvent borne products and that can get a bit smelly if you put 2-3 coats on all the walls and chances are you'd prefer a nice matt emulsion on the walls as a finish coat anyway. I would use a shellac..solvent based (methylated spirits clean up) ..a bit smelly but the smell is quick to clear and the product is very quick drying. You can buy commercial shellacs or you can buy Zinsser Bin which is a bonding conversion primer ...so it will bond to most surfaces and will therefore stick OK to vinyl. Make sure the wallpaper is as clean as possible and thoroughly dry and solid to the surface. No amount of paint will make bad papering look good.
After the primer you can coat with any finish coat.

There is no such thing as a free lunch though...you will never get a trully great finish and after all that you may find that the wallpaper strips very easily.
Cait

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:00 am 
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Never had any comebacks using pva in paint pls expalin why not to use this method, intersted to hear expalnation!!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:43 am 
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Hi Gahotsauce,

like everyone has said - just dont unless you really have to! Like most (not all) have said the paper will re-wet and blister and bubble and not always pullback, also if its a vinyl the only option is the Zinsser method that Cait describes. Which will cost you a lot in specialist paints. Have done it for customers in the past but mainly on a quick job prior to sale of house.

PVA in paint - what on earth for? If you use the correct primer/undercoat then the following coats will adhere as expected, I would think that adding PVA to paint would give you quality issues without any real benefit. And how does it effect the ability of washable paints?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:53 am 
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Look this is a quick fix is it not. Ideal world youd strip and line.

But sometimes people dont want the fuss mess and all the rest that goes with stripping a room.

My mix is about 10:1 havent had any probs with this in the past!

So ok you use the shellac zinseer gear. Do you hate other decorators!! What on earth is this gonna be like to remove when they find the cash energy to do the job properly! :!:

Have u stripped a room after the zinseer has been applied? ::b


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:01 pm 
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yes i have actually Fordy - Claw and Zinsser DIF and its all off no drama's easy as that really


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:52 pm 
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Lol. Fair enough then but what is the cost of using this for a large room.

Bin primer is expensive, so your painting 3 coats as well, surely your quote wont be far off stripping and lining with 3 coats etc cost of bin primer!

Not trying to make enemies her,lol.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:25 pm 
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fordy wrote:
Lol. Fair enough then but what is the cost of using this for a large room.

Bin primer is expensive, so your painting 3 coats as well, surely your quote wont be far off stripping and lining with 3 coats etc cost of bin primer!

Not trying to make enemies her,lol.


No probs at all, it can be pricey, and have done it, i have found the best route is one coat of BIN followed by two of Shiledz, the price comes down on larger rooms, I once did a very large three story hall, and the cost was cheaper than strip and line. If the paper is sound then its works out cheaper because of less days labour, i.e. in a regular room it will take at least two days to strip and re-line wheres as the Zinsser route will just take a days prep. I dont like painting over wallpaper due to re-wetting, but the fast drying Zinsser does cut that risk, also I caulk the paper top and bottom prior to putting on the Zinsser. :thumbright:


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:10 pm 
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Going back to original question - I take it this would be a quick-fix until money/time available to decorate properly.

Done it myself (wouldn't do it for a client) in the days when I was marginally more impoverished than I am now!

Couple of quick coats emulsion can look considerably better than 70's wallpaper the only limitations being vinyl wallpaper. Bubbling can be a problem but you won't know till its done.

If its temporary, go for it - if not, don't bother, do it properly!


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:01 am 
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The system we use is not a quick fix if done properly and the wallpaper beneath is in really good conditon and well hung. It can be painted over and over again after this treatment without the paper bubbling or lifting.
There are a number of other reasons we get asked to carry out this type of work and do it.
Some papers haven't been hung properly (no sizing or sealing of new plasterboard before papering) and you know that the damage to the plasterboard if stripped will be extensive and painting over the paper is then a reasonable option in terms of labour cost v material cost.
Another good reason is in homes where family members have respiritary problems. The irritating dust and fungicide released from stripping walls can often remain for weeks after the removal of wallpaper however clean and conscientious the family and the decorator are at removing the debris. Although the sufferer can't be in the room when the primer is being applied....and sometimes regular emulsions will have similar effects on asthmatics etc..so sometimes they need to be away throughout the painting process...but once the paint has cured they should be able to return to the room without effects to their health.
There are other products you can use..oil based adhesion primers are good, but the smell lingers longer. I find Zinsser's range of primers to be good at problem solving and to be honest what's £30 worth of primer set against labour cost...what will you do for £30?
I'm not advocating short cuts...many people know me of old and know I will go for the long way round most times....ooh and the wordy one..never say a thing quickly when you can stay up late and write an essay...that's my motto ....eejitthatiam

Telmay is bang on about adding PVA to paint. There is an amount of a PVA in many water based paints but if the manufacturer really thought that this was a way to make it stick better to wallpaper don't you think they would be adding it themselves and then jumping up and down telling everyone that the great British public could paint over wallpaper...wonder why they don't since PVA is a sooooper cheap ingredient (despite what Unibond price it at). The amount and type they add to the paint is the right amount to stop the paint bubbling up when you next apply a coat of paint or when there is moisture in the environment. Slap in PVA and you do nothing but compromise both materials...why bother?

Here is what PVA is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyvinyl_alcohol

The biggest problem is that it is resoluble...this is not what you want in a paint film.
Cait

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:11 am 
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P.S.
Fordy,
No I don't hate other decorators...providing the paper is hung correctly in the first place then all you need do is penetrate the surface as suggested (paper tiger) and you can strip as usual..introduce moisture to the substrate to softne the wallpaper adhesive and you are away.
Adding PVA to anything is a "hate other decorators thing". Since 1st January I have had 1 job referred to me because of surface failure and my current job was compromised...both because of painters and plasterers using PVA instead of the appropriate product.

I was an apprentice/labourer with a firm in London and a journeyman told me that p*ssing in the paint improved the flow....another urban myth

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:34 pm 
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Hi Cait, the midnight oil must be good stuff up their, :grin: very nicely put, straight to the point, simple, easy to understand and I bet there will still be folk that belive PVA is some sort of God given paint improver, inspite of other people trying to inform otherwise. ::b

We will no dout, come over as 'Painter Hater's', :wink: and in some sittuations, yes we are, as you have posted.

I would dearly love to know just when, this so called 'mirricle' substance enterd in to the decorators feild. :scratch: :scratch:

Personally, it's all down to the lack of GOOD training right at the begining of people entering the trade. :thumbright:

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